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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#281

Post by throwawayboise »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Is nobody capable of looking out the window at the street signs that tell you which lane you need to be in to turn right?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#283

Post by BenjiWiebe »

gameman144 wrote: post #270
Dylan16807 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, how about a compromise. They can have my data but they have to pay minimum wage for it.

What even does "minimum wage" mean in this context? Like, all the time they possess it? The CPU time they spend on it? I'm not sure I understand the sense this makes.

I read it as meaning (minimum wage * full time job), i.e. 40 hours per week.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#284

Post by throwawayboise »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

Fine, so give me a Google Maps subscription price that does not show me ads, does not save my location history. I pay for YouTube Premium to avoid ads, I would pay for a privacy-preserving and ad-free Google Maps. Maps and navigation is the only reason I have a smartphone. If they can't offer that, I'll buy a feature phone and a Garmin Drive or some other device for nav.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#285

Post by OneLeggedCat »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

> Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS.

lol wtf. Source?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#286

Post by BenjiWiebe »

can16358p wrote: post #59
notacoward wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be a case they can win to be extremely troublesome for you (though they probably could win if their trademark is embedded in your code). Unless you can afford to make your own lawyers rich, it's a bit unwise to go "I dare you" to large US companies. Better to ship something less incriminating, and leave the spicier suggestions for anonymous comments on web forums.

Just another idea popped. What if your code doesn't include any bitstream that contains "Starbucks" but has some ML driven mechanism of passively listening to Wifis around the city, noting them and using those names dynamically? Since Starbucks McDonalds etc would (probably) be the highest quantity of signals found your code will be mimicking those names without having a single bit in the code. What would be the lega…

And while you are at it, store the BSSID along with the SSIDs seen to make it practically indistinguishable from the real thing.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#287

Post by notacoward »

SllX wrote: post #41
notacoward wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been sued over their SSID?

Yes.

https://reason.com/volokh/2018/04/29/libel-by-wifi-network-n...

Sure, it was defamation rather than copyright, but it certainly puts the lie to a certain other commenter who seems to think that if he personally can't find it on Google then it must not exist.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#288

Post by kiwijamo »

opless wrote: post #204
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lane specific driving directions? How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

How about in town, going 20mph? Most of the android tracing that I've seen logged on location history is wifi multilateration based. Since wifi is on most of the time, it's the quickest way of finding your location (since you're most likely on the road), and you can turn off GPS saving about 25mW or more of power.

But it does mean you need WiFi on negating any power saving you make from disabling GPS anyway.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#289

Post by kiwijamo »

jmkb wrote: post #259
j1elo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are lucky to live in a city covered by them, Citymapper is a very good app for public transit routing.

I tried it in NYC... the map says "Google." If I'm going to be using Google anyway, why not just use the real thing? (This thread lists some possible reasons, obviously.)

I'm fairly sure they don't use Google at all for the transit routing which is their secret sauce. They just overlay their transit routing data over the top of plain Google Maps. Google is pretty horrible with certain routing. For example transferring to following train at a designated transfer station is something Google struggles with. There is a station in my home city designated as a transfer station with timed connections where Google maps will tell you not to transfer to a train 5 minutes later and actually suggests you wait 15/25/35mins for the following train) whereas other transit apps seem to handle this fine (e.g. it can infer that Train 1 is timed to stop at the station 5 minutes before Train 2 at the same station in order for people to transfer and therefore this transfer is suggested to the user as the most optimal route).

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#290

Post by perryizgr8 »

dessant wrote: post #210
dylan604 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement Why do you think the Goog's apps are bound to the same terms as other developers? That agreement allows devs use Goog's services.

Of course, though giving yourself an advantage over competitors in a market you control is also illegal, so they should at least try to keep up the appearances.

> giving yourself an advantage over competitors in a market you control is also illegal

Is it? Doesn't seem to be a problem for Apple/Ios.

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