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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#201

Post by aftbit »

xg15 wrote: post #190
dsl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Lane specific driving directions? How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

I would presume they're hoping to find the devices of other nearby users?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#202

Post by dessant »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Information about nearby devices is not essential for navigation, otherwise the permission wouldn't have been optional until now. It can improve the service in some situations, so the right way would be to explain the tradeoff and let the user control how much data is being shared.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#203

Post by gerash »

I sense op feels entitled to use free Google services and dictate how their product should work.

There are many arguments why using GPS alone is both battery intensive and also more fragile as it won't work near tall buildings, indoors and takes time to localize.

But at the end of the day if you don't trust some corporation you can stop using their free services when there are alternatives around.

There's Apple maps, Bing maps, Here maps, etc.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#204

Post by opless »

xg15 wrote: post #190
dsl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Lane specific driving directions? How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

How about in town, going 20mph?

Most of the android tracing that I've seen logged on location history is wifi multilateration based. Since wifi is on most of the time, it's the quickest way of finding your location (since you're most likely on the road), and you can turn off GPS saving about 25mW or more of power.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#205

Post by dylan604 »

dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

>and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement

Why do you think the Goog's apps are bound to the same terms as other developers? That agreement allows devs use Goog's services.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#206

Post by xg15 »

aftbit wrote: post #201
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lane specific driving directions? How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

I would presume they're hoping to find the devices of other nearby users?

But those would be in random cars around you, which are constantly moving. How could those help retrieving your own location on a map?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#207

Post by jtolmar »

daviddisco wrote: post #76

What is the value of sniffing the local ssids? As far as I know it is just to get a better and faster lock on location (sometimes GPS signals are weak) and therefore give better navigation. Does anyone know of some other purpose?

Back when I was working on location for Google Maps navigation, we explicitly disabled the wifi-based location service, because it was less accurate, and occasionally started giving locations from several seconds ago.

So to me it's kind of a baffling decision.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#208

Post by dylan604 »

Bancakes wrote: post #179
moritonal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

At the point where Google's failures to release working, marketable, and financially successful projects are causing them to leech off freeware. Remember openstreetmaps is also free. I fully support freeware being paywalled as that would decimate FAMANG's userbase.

If I ask Google Maps to provide my cycling directions, I get multiple options depending on destination. If I ask Apple Maps, I get an apology that directions are not available in my area. I don't think Googs is using openstreetmaps data

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#209

Post by gsich »

dsl wrote: post #184
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Not really. That accuracy is not done with RSSI measurements from far away SSIDs.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#210

Post by dessant »

dylan604 wrote: post #205
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

>and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement Why do you think the Goog's apps are bound to the same terms as other developers? That agreement allows devs use Goog's services.

Of course, though giving yourself an advantage over competitors in a market you control is also illegal, so they should at least try to keep up the appearances.
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