Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#121

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:32 PM UTC

mcast wrote: post #105

DrBoring wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Is the goal to make Google Maps publish a Starbucks/McDonalds in the middle of the highway? I can't imagine they would use the SSID as a source for building location.

No, the SSIDs are used to assist the GPS on where the user is located. Likewise, the data is used to triangulate a user in a specific business/location without needing access to GPS (some more nefarious uses: user is connected to "Joe's Psychiatry Wifi" every Wednesday, maybe we could group the user as a depressed adult for advertisers).

> user is connected to "Joe's Psychiatry Wifi" every Wednesday, maybe we could group the user as a depressed adult for advertisers

If you can think of any kind of nefarious use for data, you can safely bet that Zuckerberg has already done it: https://web.archive.org/web/20160830031017/http://fusion.net...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#122

Post by loceng » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

It arguably may allow the navigation to be more accurate, even if a tiny amount, though it obviously isn't strictly required since navigation works without the data.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#123

Post by ithinkso » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

luckydata wrote: post #94

osrec wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a localised basis, it is perhaps not so bad, however at a higher level, it allows you to piece together a huge amount of info, including grouping members of households etc. Honestly, it's not a great piece of info to be leaking, if you value your privacy.

That requires processing the data in ways that would have to be disclosed as per law.

That only requires writing an apology for a bug after processing the data in this ways was found to be undisclosed, and then disclosing it with no opt-out.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#124

Post by skykooler » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

I used to ride a train which had onboard wifi. Whenever I was on the train and underground, Google Maps would decide that I was at the terminal station of the train - which I assume is where it first scanned that SSID - and would try to reroute me.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#125

Post by cush » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

If you have an iPhone and haven't been using Apple Maps, it's basically on par now with Google Maps for navigation. I hadn't tried Apple Maps for years because of how bad it used to be, and was pleasantly surprised to find the maps are incredibly accurate and turn by turn navigation is rock solid. I haven't touched Google Maps in months, and this post is reminding me that it's time to just uninstall it

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#126

Post by moritonal » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free?

Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps.

You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of data (which they are really) and offers a paid solution that doesn't track you.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#127

Post by uneekname » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

If this was codified into a repo, I'd absolutely deploy one or two of my own.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#128

Post by uneekname » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:38 PM UTC

app4soft wrote: post #85

> I immediately installed Organic Maps, and I'm sure there are loads of others as an option. Here are OSM -based maps applications for Android .[0,1] Not all OSM-based Android apps listed on OpenStreetMap Wiki, so check out also maps apps in various F-Droid repos.[2] Also here are maps apps for Symbian[3,4] and Maemo[5]. For other platforms there are also a lot of other apps.[6] [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wik…

Does anyone have a favorite that has worked well for them?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#129

Post by recursive » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

causality0 wrote: post #54

I have regarded the entire Google Maps dev team with utter contempt since they first combined maps and navigation into one app, thereby preventing you from using both at the same time. At this point I'd rather use a paper map then let Google wardrive using my phone 24 hours a day.

I don't understand this at all. If they're both in the same app, then aren't you using them both every time you're using it? What does it mean to navigate without using a map?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#130

Post by jdiez17 » Tue, Feb 01, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

jesprenj wrote: post #115

jdiez17 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, microG is a partial reimplementation of some of the functionality in the Google Mobile Services (GMS) app. Unfortunately, this approach has significant drawbacks. In order to install microG, your version of Android OS needs support for spoofing the cryptographic signatures of apps. Some OSes like LineageOS and CalyxOS allow this. See [1] for some pointers about why this is considered harmful. There was also a rec…

Speaking of signatures, google play now requires developers to submit the private keys we used to sign apps with. Without submitting a key I can't issue updates. Out of protest I stopped pushing updates to apps via Google Play.

Yes, that is fairly concerning. The last news I had about this was that using Google Play Signing (their key escrow and app signing service) was only mandatory for new apps as of August 2021. Not sure if that has changed recently. But everyone can see it coming a mile away, that Google will only continue tightening that grip.

To be honest, I understand the potentially good intentions behind Google's push to manage keys for app developers. It is not trivial to (1) keep private keys secure, and (2) not lose access to them over a long enough period of time. So Google can store them in HSMs in their datacenters and provide backups and access controls and such. But it also gives them the ability to deliver app updates with "extra stuff" for targeted individuals. See Figure 1 of [1]. That doesn't look very nice to me.

[1] https://developer.android.com/studio/publish/app-signing