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Please make a dumb car

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Re: Please make a dumb car

#641
post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I really want a car with no computers. I want analog gauges, a real gear selector lever, and switches and knobs for other accessories. A tactile environment that doesn't demand my visual focus to use is what I want. I have no need for a computer in my car, and to the extent I do, my phone is perfectly capable.

No engine control, no brake control, no airbags, no power steering, no engine starter, no automatic windows, no intermittent wipers, no central locking, no alarm system, no automatic lights

- Engine control - unnecessary, cars ran for 100 years without it.

- Brakes work perfectly well without computers.

- Airbags don't need computers, they work perfectly well by mechanical means.

- Power steering works perfectly without computers or any electrics at all. Every car I've ever owned had mechanical power steering without any fancy electroics including my latest one. Why tamper with something that works perfectly well?

- Engine starter? Cars have starter motors since just after the hand crank ers, computers were still nearly 100 years away when starter motors were introduced.

- Automatic windows are a damn menace, they are reliably unreliable. When one failed - fortunately the driver's side - I had my garage man retrofit a traditional hand windup one. On the three remaining windows I got him to isolate them so they only worked on their individual switches.

- Mechanical intermittent wipers have been around since at least WWII. No computers or electronics to go wrong and complicate matters.

- Central locking on my last two cars has been a disaster. You obviously have never experienced a situation where the locking gets out of sync and some doors remain unlocked - unlock the others and then the unlocked ones lock and vice versa.

- Where I live alarm systems are likely to get you a brick through your windscreen - not from burglars but from annoyed residents who are fed up with car alarm noise.

- Automatic lights are another menace, you often can't control them, they switch off when you want to leave the lights and so on. (It seems to me that the designers of these systems never anticipate what we drivers actually need. Perhaps they only test them in the most tame and predictable environments.)

All this gumph is unnecessary, it makes the car less reliable and more expensive to buy and fix. Moreover, they're impossible to fix when you're in places where there's no service mechanic or garage (out on the open road for instance - I've some excellent instances from long trips 3,000 - 4,000 miles anf of cars in convoy on rough roads. Cars with all these unnecessary gadgets were, without fail, the first to break down. And they were a disaster because none of us techies could improvise in the usual manner that we could do with a more traditional car, often we could be stranded for days whilst waiting a tow truck to come from hundreds of miles away. What's more that's hellishly expensive.

You people are just gadget mad.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#643
post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I really want a car with no computers. I want analog gauges, a real gear selector lever, and switches and knobs for other accessories. A tactile environment that doesn't demand my visual focus to use is what I want. I have no need for a computer in my car, and to the extent I do, my phone is perfectly capable.

No engine control, no brake control, no airbags, no power steering, no engine starter, no automatic windows, no intermittent wipers, no central locking, no alarm system, no automatic lights

- Engine control - unnecessary, cars ran for 100 years without it.

- Brakes work perfectly well without computers.

- Airbags don't need computers, they work perfectly well by mechanical means.

- Power steering works perfectly without computers or any electrical stuff at all. Every car I've ever owned had mechanical power steering without any fancy electroics including my latest one. Why tamper with something that works perfectly well?

- Engine starter? Cars have had starter motors since just after the hand crank era, computers were still nearly 100 years away when starter motors were introduced.

- Automatic windows are a damn menace, they are reliably unreliable. When one failed - fortunately the driver's side - I had my garage man retrofit a traditional hand windup one. On the three remaining windows I got him isolate them so they only worked on their own individual switches.

- Mechanical intermittent wipers have been around since at least WWII. No computers or electronics to go wrong and complicate matters.

- Central locking on my last two cars has been a disaster. You obviously have never experienced a situation where the locking gets out of sync and some doors remain unlocked - unlock the others and then the unlocked ones lock and vice versa. It's a nightmare, any attempt to properly lock the car fails.

- Where I live alarm system are likely to get a brick through your windscreen - not from burglars but rather from annoyed residents who are fed up with car alarm noise.

- Automatic lights are another menace, you often can't control them, they switch off when you want to leave the lights and so on. The people who design and program their operation clearly don't use them except in the most tame surroundings.

All this gumph is unnecessary, it makes car less reliable and more expensive to both purchase and fix - and they're impossible to fix when you're in places where there's no service mechanic or garage (out on the open road for instance - I've some excellent instances from long trips 3,000 - 4,000 miles of cars in convoy on rough roads. Cars with all these unnecessary gadgets were, without fail, the first to break down. And they were a disaster because none of us techies could improvise in the usual manner as we could do with a more traditional car. Often we could be stranded for days whilst we waited for a tow truck to come from hundreds of miles away. Moreover, that's hellishly expensive.

You people are just gadget mad.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#644
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how well my car will age when miscellaneous sensor all over the car start failing. That's just it, the tech is making the cars less reliable. Will all of these bespoke parts be available in 10, 15, 20 years? I would hate to have to dispose of a working car because the dead now obsolete chip on the bespoke LCD dash module shaped like the cars dashboard is no longer in production. I had cars who's odometers…

Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics. When's the last time you saw a broken-down car by the side of the road, and is this happening more or less often than 20 years ago? Do you think cars require more or less upkeep and maintenance than 20 years ago? Yes, cars do have some new components that have introduced new failure modes, and…

> Note that "cars are getting less reliable" is a gut feeling that many people have, but largely isn't backed by real metrics.

Yup. Just like my friends 2010 VW which went into limp home mode after he drove through a puddle a year after he bought it. Dealer had to replace some doodad to the tune of $500 for the part. He then bought a Mercedes in 2013 that started to kill the battery after a month because the park lamps refused to turn off. Mercedes could not figure out the issue even after swapping so they removed the park lamps. All caused by fragile electronics. Meanwhile I plowed the 2002 chevy van through a deep puddle once (being young and dumb) and it coughed, sputtered but kept going until it dried off and then resumed purring.

> Do you think cars require more or less upkeep and maintenance than 20 years ago?

Since I do my own upkeep including engine and tranny swaps (project vehicles), the upkeep is pretty much the same. Check/change oil, and check/top off fluids 4 times year. Then brakes and tires. Worst case check plugs and so on after 50k but those show up as misfires that are easy to feel. All the vehicles I have experience with are 1995 and newer with some 1980's trucks and vans thrown in.

You also have to account for a lot of wear and tear that came from fuel changes. When lead was eliminated the leaded cars suffered from premature ring and piston failure. And when we phased out MTBE we also suffered as alcohol was attacking metal and rubber components with oxidation causing failures. So these changes might make older cars seem less reliable but the fact is we forced them to be that way (for the better).

Re: Please make a dumb car

#645
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re the odometers, in my 2018 Volvo and my Wife's 2019 XC40. They are all accurate, but for different purposes. 1. The standard "life of the car" odometer is permanently on the left gauge, top reading 2. There is one (two?) manually resettable trip odometers 3. There is an auto-resetting trip odometer - it resets when the car has been off for four hours. You can configure which of the second two are displayed by going…

It's quite telling the fact I needed a 3 paragraph reply from a user on HN to explain to me how to use the odometers and lights in my car. I had a Tucson before this Volvo and it was just so intuitive and easy to use. It's something that needs to be standardized, they are tools that no car would be street legal without and thus, should have identical interactions no matter the manufacturer.

I'm confident you could have found all the information contained in those paragraphs in the manual if you had read it instead of complaining on HN.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#646
post #368
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my cars have that misfeature, but vary in details. Both take just long enough to start playing that they usually start blaring music as I'm backup up. Nor have I found any way to disable the feature on either. It took months for me to get into the habit of sitting and waiting for it to boot so I could turn it off before I start driving. The Honda CR-V is like you say, it will only turn on if you had the radio on…

For the Bolt - was it connected to Bluetooth when the car turned off?

I don't know. My phone isn't paired with the car, but my wife's is. If I drive the grocery store and back, the radio will always turn on when I'm leaving the house (after the wife used it last), and it will usually (but not always) turn on as I'm leaving the grocery store. It is possible that the car is intermittently connecting with her phone (which is inside the house) before I leave. In any case though, it always starts up playing radio even if it was playing via bluetooth on the last trip (and that same phone connects with the same apps open).

Re: Please make a dumb car

#647
post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, my 2009 Volvo has a popup screen that can be pushed down into the dash. I like it because I almost never use the reversing camera, but on the rare occasion I want to it's available. The rest of the car is all physical controls.

are you not worried about running over small children?

Serious question. Was there some epidemic of running over children that I missed in the 18 years of operating vehicles before I got one with a backup camera?

Re: Please make a dumb car

#648
post #527

Strongly agree with this article. The car I love is my 1980 Datsun, but it just isn't good in the rain. My daily car is a Fiat 124 Spider. Reason I bought it was it was the least complicated, most direct driver-to-pavement, latest, fastest ride I could get for $20k with a stick shift. I won't buy an automatic. To Fiat's credit, I think they're the last manufacturer selling cars in America whose standard price is for…

Were you ever comparing with a miata? I'm curious how they compare since its the same platform.

I was very close to buying a Miata of the same year, and test drove a couple. But the Fiat sold me. They look almost identical inside, but the driving experience is actually quite different. The Fiat is a little heavier and doesn't feel as squirrely while the Miata is a touch too light and doesn't hold the road as well. Mostly though, the difference is between the 1.4L turbo and the 2L naturally aspirated in the Miata. The Mazda has pretty much straight line torque from low RPMs. The Fiat is comparatively very weak at low RPM and takes more accuracy and skill to hold it at peak performance... but it's a monster when the boost kicks in. The Fiat also has more soundproofing so it's possible to actually hear music... sometimes. Finally, I think just because Fiats are virtually unknown in America, the price tag on a comparable model / miles was about $3k less for the Fiat.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#649

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

I looked at new Audi’s last year, and my main thing was I want physical gauges on the dashboard. The sales guy looked at me like I was from Mars and then showed me the stripped versions (which were, I gotta say, pretty nice) I wonder how much all the screens have contributed to the increase in accidents in the last couple years

Are you saying it is possible to buy a new Audi with analog gauges? Do you have any more details on that?

Re: Please make a dumb car

#650

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

In the US in May of 2018, a federal law went into effect saying all new cars require a backup camera. This means that there needs to be an LCD screen visible to the driver for the camera. This is sort of a slippery slope as far as feature creep. Now that you have this screen, aren't drivers going to expect to see something on it 99% of the time when they aren't backing up? Actually this leads me to realize why some a…

My mom’s Subaru has a backup camera that appears in the rear view mirror and then disappears when in drive.
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