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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#581

Post by staticelf »

krono wrote: post #6
staticelf wrote: post #2

This sounds like something that https://twitter.com/internetofshit would repost Maybe the firmware is important for the dishwasher though, but it should still function without it. I imagine a dystopian future where some society fails for some reason and internet stop being reliable. So much of our technology is dependent on it to work. It could be war, it could be solar winds or even more likely that the manufacturer…

Personally I try to avoid these connected appliances like the plague. That said, if today's dishwasher market is anything like that of TVs, it wouldn't be easy to find one that's up to spec that doesn't come with all this nonsense.

I try too but it's basically impossible. I was on the hunt for a dumb tv the other day only to realize that there is simply none on the market. Literally not a single one that's larger than 65" that I could find and for the few ones that do exist the panels are pretty bad.

Just a matter of time until happens to a lot of other appliances.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#582

Post by ChrisLomont »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #567
ChrisLomont wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Doesn't mean they are still the best answer for all situations. Red herring. No one claimed all situations except you. >And comparing a car to a dishwasher is more than a bit silly. I didn't claim they're the same. I illustrated, correctly, that a microprocessor allows better analysis of sensor data than oldschool analog systems could. If old analog systems provided the functionality or cost savings a microprocessor…

"If old analog systems provided the functionality or cost savings a microprocessor could, then those would be used." This is a circular argument - if there was a better method for banks to access customer credit worthiness, they would be using that methodology. Wait, what do you mean global economy collapsed because of subprime loans? God created the best possible world, because if better world would be possible then…

>What improvements have materialised for diahwasher?

It takes a simple google search if you were interested.

A huge one is the cost savings by allowing energy efficient motors that tune across a wide range of current/temperature/torque as an appliance runs [1]. This is decades old, and requires complex feedback and algorithms extremely costly to implement without a microprocessor. It also allows motors to use less materials, which given fluctuating raw material costs, reduces price volatility. So: energy savings, less materials, lower costs.

This is such a big deal that companies like STMicroelectronics make STM32 CPUs explicitly designed for this, for dishwashers, and they are sold as such [2].

The same control ideas are used to make the heater coils more efficient, again using algorithms implemented in MCUs. This allows top performing devices to use less energy. From 1993 to 2003 advances reduced avg energy use per cycle from 2.6kWh and 10 gallons of water to 1.8 kWh/cycle (30% less energy) and 6 gallons of water (40% less water) [3]. In 2020 avg is about 4.2 gallons per cycle [4]. In 2022 it's 2.36 gal [5].

Annual energy usage for 2022 dishwashers is around 199 kWh/yr [5]. From the above papers in 2008 it was around 325 kWh/yr.

This took [1] https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/motion-systems...

[2] https://www.st.com/en/applications/home-and-professional-app...

[3] https://www.aceee.org/files/proceedings/2008/data/papers/1_1...

[4] https://prudentreviews.com/how-much-water-does-a-dishwasher-...

[5] https://www.energystar.gov/most-efficient/me-certified-dishw...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#583

Post by watwut »

jcelerier wrote: post #491
watwut wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is super easy on all I have seen. There is button which adds either 30min or 1 hour (depending on model) to delay when I press it. That is it, press it until delay is what you want.

> press it until delay is what you want. yes and then it accelerates and you go over the time you wanted and you have to wait for a whole 24:00 loop to reach the correct time again

That did not happened to me. Not even once. Also, the one who had 30 min delay shift reset after 12 hours. Which was sufficient literally every time. Also, you can turn it on and off which resets delay to 0 too.

I mean this 100% seriously: this is super easy to configure. No reason to fiddle with wifi, phone, app nor website.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#584

Post by denton-scratch »

acuozzo wrote: post #548
denton-scratch wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imposed on customers They are imposed, because dumb equipment is getting harder to find. You can't buy a dumb TV any more. It'll soon be the same with dishwashers and washing machines. Incidentally, I don't want a smart machine with a 90's mode; that gives you all the complexity and unreliability of a smart machine. I've heard that industrial-grade clothes washers are reliable. My toaster is a Dualit, and has no el…

> You can't buy a dumb TV any more. FWIW, you can. New dumb TVs are marketed as "digital signage" and sold to businesses at a much higher price point.

I just skimmed for some LG "digital signage": it's not obvious to me that these things actually contain a TV receiver. If it lacks a TV receiver, it doesn't really qualify as a dumb TV.

This one comes with Windows 10; that's not quite what I mean by "dumb". It appears to really be a "smart" non-TV.

https://www.lg.com/uk/business/digital-signage/lg-55ct5wj-b

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#585

Post by funcDropShadow »

rightbyte wrote: post #172
funcDropShadow wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the usefulness of notifications on my phone for a dishwasher. Either I am near my dishwasher and hear its acoustic signal that it has finished. Then I can decide to open it or empty it now or later. Or I am not near the dishwasher than I can't do anything about it. Then it is a completely unactionable information, i.e. noise. Actually, I have a Bosch/Siemens dishwasher with Wifi because it is very…

You never connected it to WiFi. I don't trust any device with radio so introducing unessecary ones seems like a bad idea.

Good point, but I was under pressure to buy a new one, and the options were limited due to Covid-related delays. As I live in Germany were it is very hard to find an unauthenticated Wifi-network, and there is certainly not a single one in range of my home, I could accept that risk.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#586

Post by cyberpunk »

cure wrote: post #89
OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

> The dishwasher I buy will never need software. If you have that option. Not sure if you've shopped for white goods recently, but the options without wifi are relatively few, and mostly lower end models. We needed a new stove, I wanted one without wifi/internet connectivity. Due to the above and supply chain issues that limited availability of a lot of models, I didn't have a choice and ended up with a model with wi…

.... Why would a stove need an internet connection?

.... What does the associated app do?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#587

Post by cyberpunk »

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #464
EricE wrote: post #345

Stuff like this is why I'm starting to wonder if I need to hoard non-connected appliances now before they aren't available any more. I certainly have zero intention of ever buying a new car again either. I hope to be buried with my late 90's/early 2000's "dumb" cars :p

I recently Purchased a 2021 Chevy Traverse. The salesman had me sit through the OnStar intro, and purposefully left the vehicle while the OnStar rep guided me through the process. They sold me on 2 months free SiriusXM radio, vehicle Wifi, and OnStar ( only catch was to provide credit card). I inquired multiple times to ensure that I would not be charged during trial. I arrive home one hour later to receive notificat…

That's insane. Can you just rip the sim out of it somehow?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#588

Post by Ajedi32 »

fsflover wrote: post #558
Ajedi32 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important part of freedom 2 (freely distributing patches to copyrighted software) is already allowed by existing copyright law. You own the copyright to your patches, not the company whose software you're patching. Extending that freedom to allow distributing the end result of those patches to people who don't have a license to use the original software (as freedom 2 does) would just be another, slightly less dir…

> would just be another, slightly less direct way of abolishing software copyright Which is the right thing to do. Copyright creates artificial monopolies and harms users, as was predicted by Stallman: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... . There should be a different, just way to be paid for software.

> There should be a different, just way to be paid for software.

Fantasy land. Open source projects have been looking for such a way for decades now, with no luck. Copyright has so far proven to be the only practical, "just" way to make software development viable as a business.

Copyright does not in and of itself "harm" users, unless you consider having to pay for the goods you use to be "harm". The harms described in the article you linked could be mitigated by freedom 1 alone (combined with the portion of freedom 3 that's already allowed under existing law, as discussed).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#589

Post by raxxorrax »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #383
raxxorrax wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the size of your household a bit. If it runs every second day, it should not be a problem. If you save dishes for a week or two, the additional water from the intensive program really helps to get rid of dried out dirt.

In that case it's called not a dishwasher, but a Cockroach Breeding System.

No, for that you have the rats eating the cockroaches.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#590

Post by hungryforcodes »

nbernard wrote: post #326
jsmith45 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it technically could clean clothing too, albeit you probably can't fit very much without balling or layering stuff up too much to get it clean. A clothes washing machine is probably more efficient for this purpose. Although for countries where laundry machines are typically in the kitchen, a theoretical hybrid machine would be interesting (if it worked well, and the dish specific stuff could fold away compa…

Considering the pH of dishwasher liquid, you may not have much clothes remaining at the end of the washing cycle...

Unless you use laundry detergent when you wash clothes and dishwashing liquid when you wash your dishes.
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