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468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

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Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#21

Post by CalRobert »

ftth_finland wrote: post #17
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I moved to Europe from Northern California Europe is not a single country but a collection of vastly different countries with different opportunities and issues. May I ask which country that is? >almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobseeker's allowance That's not universally true. In some EU countries jobseeker's allowance, as the name suggests, is paid to you as long as you prove you're looking…

In Finland you can get an amount equal to basic unemployment benefits to start a business for a year. You can get last resort social benefits basically forever if you aren’t actively working much or don’t run a business.

That's really interesting. I'm naturalised now and we've considered moving to Finland because Ireland's schools seem inferior. among other reasons. One problem is that we've heard it's very hard to make friends, would you say that's true? We've been lucky to build a great friend network here.

Incidentally I bought a Muurikka from a Finnish friend last summer and it's the most amazing thing I've ever cooked with. I don't think I'll ever go back to a bbq :-)

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#22

Post by mathverse »

heurisko wrote: post #15
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

Do you have some figures, e.g. rent for one bedroom apartment, cost of an average meal in a restaurant, cost of a season travel pass? Because otherwise it's difficult to judge. I sometimes read other countries complain about their awful rail system, and it turns out "the trains are sometimes 5 minutes late on Wednesdays", as they're used to punctual service at all other times.

You can check numbeo for this. For me this was NEVER relevant. Only what mattered was disposable income.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#23

Post by mschuster91 »

mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af.

The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too:

- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer

- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university

- housing costs are drastically lower than the US

- no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions

- way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less

- we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#24

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

CalRobert wrote: post #19
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I moved to Europe from Northern California Europe is not a single country but a collection of vastly different countries with different opportunities and issues. May I ask which country that is? >almost indefinite, if you get your expenses lower than Jobseeker's allowance That's not universally true. In some EU countries jobseeker's allowance, as the name suggests, is paid to you as long as you prove you're looking…

Certainly, but a lot of the things I like are applicable to most of Europe. I moved to Ireland. You're right re: JSA and JSB (Jobseeker's allowance and benefit) but my neighbours have somehow been on it for 13 years now..... And yes, I was lucky to buy a cheap house in 2019. But it was under 100k and derelict, I've been fixing it up. Fortunately it has gigabit fibre and is a bike ride from the train.

>but my neighbours have somehow been on it for 13 years now.....

Well, every country has people who've learned to game the welfare system in order to never have to go to work (like faking various illnesses for example), but some countries make the process of being unemployed for life so dehumanizing in order to deter cheaters, that it's not worth it it unless you're really committed to such a lifestyle (let's say, knock on wood, you're disabled from the neck down, you have to show up yearly to the government officer handling your unemployment benefits, to prove that you're still disabled and can't work. Madness!).

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#25

Post by CalRobert »

mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

If you're European, it seems like your best bet, if you can pull it off, is to:

* get your nice free college in Europe

* go make a mountain of cash in California

* come back and retire in your 30's and start a family.

but that depends on a lot of things going right. I'd rather raise a family in most of Europe, and retire in Europe. But I can't deny that if I'd stayed in California I'd probably have $1-2 million more. And the tax structures here make FIRE _very_ difficult, depending on where you are. Portugal is appealing if your income is foreign (check out the NHR program), and Germany allows about 12k per year in capital gains tax-free if I recall.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#26

Post by mathverse »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

>- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer

Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care)

>- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private schools or (later on) for university

I dont have children? And judging by birth rates a lot of people dont as well.

>- housing costs are drastically lower than the US

Are housing costs relative to tech salaries really lower than the US?

>- no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions

Again as a young, ambitious individual in Tech I would rather have more disposable income than rely on a ponzi scheme that's the gov-backed pension system.

>- way less commute expenses - we tend to have working public transport and even if you commute by car, the distances involved are way less

And we live in cramped,tiny,noisy,apartments...I would rather commute from a suburb and have a house with a garden.

>- we have government-mandated vacation time - at the least 20 days a year, most employers offer around the 30 day range - and unlimited as-needed sick time, which also means you don't have to stuff away money for unpaid time off.

Unlimited PTOs or european level PTOs are very common in US tech companies.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#27

Post by raverbashing »

roenxi wrote: post #9

The problem Europe has isn't that they lack money, the problem is that all the things US tech companies do to get ahead are illegal in Europe. Out of FAANG, European regulators are decidedly against the F/G and probably have reservations about at least one of the As. I wouldn't feel off guard if it turns out Netflix were impractical in the EU due to challenges both regulatory and linguistic.

> Europe has isn't that they lack money

"Lack" is a bad word but everything that's not around SV gets less funding. Yes, even in the US

> is that all the things US tech companies do to get ahead are illegal in Europe

So maybe don't do illegal BS and it will work out. In fact I'd say there's a huge market to be explored but enterpreneurs try the same stuff that works in the US without thinking about the market characteristics

> it turns out Netflix were impractical in the EU due to challenges both regulatory and linguistic

Netflix works just fine in Europe.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#28

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

>- no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions

Lol, NO. Every Gen Z to Millennial European I talked to knows that our pyramid pension system is a scam and will collapse by the time we'll retire. Unless we happen to die before we can reitre at the age of 85 or whatever it will be increased to until then.

If you want to survive off your pension in 30-50 years, then you'd better have made some solid investments, otherwise your government pension will be worthless by then.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#29

Post by cowl »

roenxi wrote: post #9

The problem Europe has isn't that they lack money, the problem is that all the things US tech companies do to get ahead are illegal in Europe. Out of FAANG, European regulators are decidedly against the F/G and probably have reservations about at least one of the As. I wouldn't feel off guard if it turns out Netflix were impractical in the EU due to challenges both regulatory and linguistic.

This is such an absurd view. If they did illegal things they would not be able to operate in EU. While some expectations of what is considered acceptable or not have changed in Europe in meanwhile, it doesn't mean they were illegal in the first place. The second point you make is a true problem, the market is fragmented by too many regulations so the cost of establishing a company to the full EU is much greater than establishing it in US. But this makes a case to harmonize more the market. After all it's supposed to be a single market. but the "Single market" part is enforced only for physical goods and digital services goods are still not considered. It's Much easier for the industry Lobby to find a supporter in the fractured EU than in the US and EU in itself is very protectionist of existing business. That's why it will be almost impossible to fund any disrupting Company in EU

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#30

Post by raverbashing »

mathverse wrote: post #26
mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

>- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) >- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private…

Curious on why are you not in the US then?

> you typically pay for things anyway (dental care)

Ah yes, dental care. The thing that's literelly not included in healthcare in most places.

> I would rather commute from a suburb and have a house with a garden.

Literally nothing prevents you from doing that in Europe. Houses might be smaller depending on the country, but this exists.

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