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Please make a dumb car

techcrunch.com

421–430 of 671 posts

Re: Please make a dumb car

#421

Strongly agree with this article. The car I love is my 1980 Datsun, but it just isn't good in the rain. My daily car is a Fiat 124 Spider. Reason I bought it was it was the least complicated, most direct driver-to-pavement, latest, fastest ride I could get for $20k with a stick shift. I won't buy an automatic. To Fiat's credit, I think they're the last manufacturer selling cars in America whose standard price is for…

>It's beyond me how they could sell this car with a touch screen but without a boost gauge.

Back in the days of our 80's datsuns, when upping the boost you definitely need to keep an eye on it. These days, ECUs have that under control, there will be a MAP sensor that monitors pressure and boost cut / limp mode will follow any overboost situation.

My late 2000s BMW for example had a weird compound turbo setup that, to its credit, could build 23psi in a second but if any of the actuators failed could be disasterous for the baby turbo. The ECU was smart enough to measure the normal boost profile and would throw a fault code if it was over/under spooling. The control logic was impressive, I was happy with the response and the intake was kept FOD free, even on the day one of the actuators failed open.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#422
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised how defeatist and negative the tech community's attitude towards computerized UX in cars is. Often the opinions are simplistic and dismissive instead of zooming into the details. It's similar to when onscreen keyboards in phones where "obviously never going to work" when now, most people probably wouldn't want to give up the screen real estate for a hardware keyboard, except even more one-note. I…

The big difference between cars and smartphones is that you can focus all of your attention on your smartphone screen to use it. That's not true for the driver of an automobile. The best automobile interfaces use knobs of different sizes and with different textures so that you can find them without looking. Buttons should be arranged in rows, so they are easy to find with a short look. Extremely common buttons should…

That's kind of what I mean: The discussion always starts and too often ends there. A couple of thoughts:

- Already in the pre-touchscreen, button-dominated area, plenty of more complicated use cases had terrible UX, and in many cases touchscreens have made them much easier. For example, do you remember how difficult it often was to program radio presets in 80s head-units? There were a lot of real clunkers there.

- There's plenty of newer use cases that would be hard or impossible to make easy with traditional hardware button UX, such as route and EV charge planning.

- Good software offers many possibilities to avoid interactions altogether, or make them single-step instead of multi-step. A good screen-based system will now often suggest interactions pro-actively and situationally at the top-level of the system and reduce interaction to a single multi-modal (touch/gesture/speech) confirmation on what used to be multi-step processes.

- Screens can offer tactile experiences - most recently with the introduction of screens that can do permanent haptic feedback via electrostatic friction coefficient modulation, emulating different surface feels as the finger moves.

- You already mentioned features such as 360 degree cameras: If nothing else, screens are great for showing information. Interactions aside, this alone has a lot of legs left and there's absolutely quality differences between good and bad implementations.

- There's absolutely nothing wrong with a good physical button (on the contrary - few things are more satisfying than a good, solid, weighty button) and having both for use in the appropriate situation. It doesn't mean there's no possible benefits from further investment into good car software.

I feel a lot of this is rooted in first-hand experience with bad systems - which I agree are plentiful, and just as awful as a bad, clunky, unrefined phone onscreen keyboard. Dare to imagine a good one.

Working on car systems means getting to own the form factor and the entire surroundings of a user, much more than working on software targeting rarely-changing phone and PC devices. It's an open field for software and hardware innovation and deserves a little more professional excitement and ambition to do it well.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#423

Power seats are not a pointless luxury. I’m pretty sure they are continuously adjustable which is much better than trying to pull on some lever and get the seat to pop into approximately the right place. To say nothing of mulitple drivers with memorized positions etc.

Exactly, plus movement in more directions (up & down, didn't see a single car with manual adjustment that allowed this), very useful for us blessed with non-standard body dimensions (ie I am quite tall). It changes default-settings car where I touch roof with my head into one where there is more than 5cm/2" clearance. Adjustable tightness of part of the seat above your hips which keeps you better in tight/fast curves…

I recently accidentally moved my seat waaaay up without realizing it when I was cleaning my car. I spent a week worrying about my weight because suddenly the seat belt seemed to have a lot less slack, and my stomach seemed closer to the wheel. Went to weigh myself an no increase.

when I figured out what I had done I laughed at myself for a solid 10 minutes

Re: Please make a dumb car

#424

I don't mind having a smart car, in fact, I like most of the "smart" features - lane centering, adaptive cruise, emergency braking, TPMS, lane change cameras, auto headlights, auto wipers, etc. But I want buttons and knobs for everything I use while driving. I probably wouldn't pay extra for built-in navigation (it generally comes with other options that I do want), but I've found it useful a few times when I was out…

[deleted]

Re: Please make a dumb car

#425
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backup cameras are mandated in the US now, so that requires an LCD screen on the dash.

Am in the only one who turns and looks back, out the window? I had 20 plus rental cars last year and very few had tech features I would ever pay for. Lane assist with adaptive cruise are the only notable features for long drives. I did enjoy the red dash notification Toyota has. Totally caught me off guard the first time however, I tried out the ABS.

A child can stand behind my car and looking out the rear window I would not be able to see them. I get more visibility from my backup cameras and radar sensors on my modern cars than I did on my 2000 Accord.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#427
Also, consider an e-bike? It's a shame that the US continues to invest in sprawl, roads and parking lots everywhere. Cities could be so much more green and vibrant.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#428
> Power seat adjustment, though, that’s a luxury even today. Use the lever.

Probably the one thing I disagree with the article on. Power seat adjustment is a heck of a lot safer in the driver seat than manual levers, and it's not even close.

If a passenger accidentally adjusts the seat too far forward or too far back while the car is in motion, fine, it's an inconvenience. If the driver does this, they become a road hazard.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did sort of miss losing blue tooth when switching to a newer work truck from a muscle car that had it. But it hasn't been an issue. I don't miss any of the other feature enough to pay for them (no key fob, no power seats, etc; but it has power windows and locks, so that's nice). The quality of tactile representation and response on the knobs/buttons are not as good as my old 89 caprice was. But that's true of all c…

If you have a cigarette lighter that you use as a USB charger, they make cigarette lighter bluetooth-to-radio adapters which also have usb slots for about $20. Set your car radio and the adapter to the same frequency, and your car now has bluetooth.

Mine's on a used Fit. Lighter port has a little 2x USB port permanently plugged in. One USB to phone's charging cable, the second powers a little BT receiver (and that has a 3.5mm audio out to the front input of the basic "dumb" factory stereo).

I did have to spend 5 min setting up some little adhesive wire straps to bundle the little cables out of the way, but total cost was maybe $25-35 for the USB power adapter and Bluetooth rx. Granted, it wouldn't have been necessary if so many phones didn't ditch the dedicated audio output, but at least it wasn't an expensive workaround.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#430
Familiar complaints in Dan Neil's WSJ review of the VW Golf R this weekend:

> After a week of fun and wild-eyed frustration with the 2022 Volkswagen Golf R ... I was ready to scold VW’s product planners. Never has so good a car been so let down by its touchscreen, software and switchgear.

> But I just don’t have the heart. It’s not like the R’s deciders wanted to put a one-eyed, lowest-bidder monstrosity smack in the middle of their flagship Golf R .... But they had a number to hit, a belt to tighten, and nobody was going home until they did.

> ... The VW system’s boot-up is interminable; operators must wait many long seconds in the morning before they can adjust simple things like fan speed and seat heaters. The touchscreen response is like an ATM from the 1990s. The thin horizontal sliders for volume and cabin temperature are not illuminated so they are hard to see at night.

wsj.com/articles/2022-vw-golf-r-sporty-stylish-not-the-best-ux-11643317829

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