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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#501

Post by chasd00 »

alkonaut wrote: post #496
chasd00 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

use the delay feature on your existing dumb dishwasher to start in the middle of the night.

Yes that does get you 99% of the way there at least. It does require predicting/assuming the electricity prices though. If they are predictable enough, that's fine. It doesn't quite reach feature parity with actually fetching electricity prices every hour and slowly learning when it's cheapest over many weeks.

what is the difference between 99% and 100% in the cost of electricity though? 1/50th of a cent?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#502

Post by fsflover »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #492
feoren wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem: People are writing bad software with bugs and dark patterns. Solution: Software development should be the only creative profession in the entire world with no legal protection on their work!? It's insane to me. Absolutely insane. Copyright is not immoral. Almost nobody in this thread would be able to make any money as a software engineer if software were not allowed to make money. And yes, I've heard the arg…

I'm with you. I've become more sympathetic to Stallman's philosophy in recent years, but it's really only "freedom 1"[1] that I find potentially valuable. The other freedoms (such as 2, which effectively abolishes copyright) would destroy the industry if they were forcibly applied to all software. [1]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms

If you only have freedom 1, you must be a software developer (with a lot of free time) to benefit from that.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#503

Post by adrianmonk »

michaelt wrote: post #51
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

As opposed to stupider and more tedious ways to do firmware updates.

Real-world examples:

(1) Download firmware, stick it on a USB drive, put USB drive in device, go through arcane menus or button press sequence to do an update. I have two devices that work this way, an aftermarket car stereo Bluetooth adapter and a (musical) keyboard.

(2) Install some app (and maybe a driver) on a Windows computer, connect device to computer, and have the app push the firmware to the device. I have an old Garmin GPS watch that does it this way. (Which is extra annoying because the watch has an Android companion app which communicates with the watch over Bluetooth, and it can tell you an update is available but can't apply it.)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#504

Post by EvanAnderson »

feoren wrote: post #439
fsflover wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

Problem: People are writing bad software with bugs and dark patterns. Solution: Software development should be the only creative profession in the entire world with no legal protection on their work!? It's insane to me. Absolutely insane. Copyright is not immoral. Almost nobody in this thread would be able to make any money as a software engineer if software were not allowed to make money. And yes, I've heard the arg…

The GPL is a copyright license. It requires copyright law to "function". The FSF does not advocate for the abolition of copyright law.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#505

Post by hda111 »

formerly_proven wrote: post #250
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Miele (and BSH) is really good at industrial design in my experience so I'd be surprised if they'd do something like that. However, I also don't really see a particular reason why a dishwasher needs WiFi. Do people actually like... check on them and come running to unload it when it's done? I suppose for checking if it needs dishwasher salt or rinse aid it could make sense but ... eh

I would find it useful to check whether the dishwasher is currently running. At least BSH has models without any indication outside where the dishwasher is fully hidden behind a frame.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#506

Post by simplyaccont »

buro9 wrote: post #448
danShumway wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a silly question, but does Miele require a specific kind of cleaning powder or packet, or does it have an option to tell it what kind of cleaning powder you're using? My dishwasher you just dump any boxed powder in and I can use any brand I want. I'm assuming that for a machine this expensive and geared at long-term usage Miele would have the same capabilities, and it's not like a Keurig thing where the user is…

> does Miele require a specific kind of cleaning powder or packet No. But they do have an auto-dosing capability on some models that take a disk and dispense the right amount of powder for the given wash. Which? reviewed this and concluded it's a gimmick: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/09/is-this-miele-dishwashe... . I agree with this verdict. The washing machine auto-dosing though... that isn't as bad, being more…

Entire dishwasher it's a gimmick. you can wash dishes yourself. or you can use dishwasher in order to save some time. same with auto-dosing - it's a convenience and it's really convenient. with regards to pricing: machine comes with 6 disks. You can refill them later with usual powder in a couple of minutes.

Another gimmick that machine has, it's auto-opening at the end of the cycle in order to vent off steam.

I had many different dishwashers over the years, but Miele one is so far the best I ever had

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#507

Post by hda111 »

amelius wrote: post #404
formerly_proven wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miele (and BSH) is really good at industrial design in my experience so I'd be surprised if they'd do something like that. However, I also don't really see a particular reason why a dishwasher needs WiFi. Do people actually like... check on them and come running to unload it when it's done? I suppose for checking if it needs dishwasher salt or rinse aid it could make sense but ... eh

Miele's user interface isn't that great. I owned a Miele laundry machine. After you press "start" there is no way you can undo that. This sucks. Even missiles have an "unlaunch" feature.

With the current WiFi connected Miele laundry machines you can use the app to pause and add more laundry.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#508

Post by kwertyoowiyop »

brk wrote: post #266
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Tesla is making dishwashers now?

“Full Self-Washing” is coming soon, just you wait!

And check out the new Ridiculous wash cycle!

The jokes practically write themselves.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#509

Post by spaceman10 »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

Your post missed the entire point of the frustration and arbitrates it away through an explanation that obfuscates clarity ad nauseum.

See what i did there. one sentence.

THE ISSUE PRESENTED IN THE POST: I want to use the product. I have to inconvenience my routine to use it.

This issue is pervasive in tech. It ASSUMES the idiot. Big Tech is defining what is best for the user. This is what we have bought. This post is pointing that out. From what I can tell, the Parent post here is a shill or is the typical 'doesn't happen to me tech elitist'.

That's about it. Found my login to make this comment. Logging out.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#510

Post by OtomotO »

slantyyz wrote: post #195
OtomotO wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am completely honest here: We had a dishwasher since I was a little child (it's very common here) The first one we had, we had for over 20 years until it broke down. If I can only get an IoT-thingy, I'll refuse to buy one and either repair the old one or wash by hand. I am a green-nut, so I try to minimize my eco-footprint, but enough is enough and I draw a line when my dishwasher needs to phone home. What software…

Sadly, I don't think dishwashers will last 20 years any more. Since 2005, I'm on my third dishwasher. The first one lasted 9 years, the second one around 5 (with one under warranty repair). At some point the repairs/parts cost more than what the original dishwasher is worth. Regarding the algorithm, I'm not sure they make a huge difference anyways. FWIW, The Technology Connections channel on YouTube has a couple of p…

Money isn't of real relevance to me, so if it costs more I don't really care unless it's a ridiculous difference
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