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Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

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81–90 of 113 posts

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#81
post #69

NSO is just the one that sells a fully weaponized product but many companies out there are capable of selling you exploits with similar capabilities. Like Zerodium,Immunity Inc etc etc

so much this. the discussion around NSO (specifically in Israel this past week) has become so exhausting NSO marketing enjoy the fact they are shown as some super powered company who has been able and always will be able to get full control of every phone on earth. One dramatic news investigation showed exclusive video of NSO branded server racks[1] in an African country. Who cares about the servers? All pegasus need…

Israelis are very good at marketing and creating this superficial,mystical,super power entity capable of anything.

There are one person companies people have never heard of capable of doing the very same like NSO.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

ok, I'll expand on this quickly: 1. The state of Israel is the only state in the area where both Jews and Arabs are welcome and have a place in government and legislative bodies. Much of the "legitimate criticism" of Israel isn't directed at the Arabs in Israel it seems to I claim thinly veiled hate against the Jewish part of the population. 2. If one argues that it is against the Jewish part of the population becaus…

Genuinely asking, my understanding is that Israel the government considers itself a primarily Jewish ethnostate with policies in place to evict Arabs from their lands in order to put Jewish people in there. My understanding is that this is where a lot of criticism and advocacy for Palestine comes from. In that case, in order to criticize the treatment of Palestinians, one would be criticizing a policy that benefits primarily the Jews of Israel. By this logic, it is antisimetic to point out human rights abuses that benefit Israeli Jewish citizens?

(I'm a layperson who isn't highly educated on this, and I'm aware that this conversation is complex and filled with nuance. I'm primarily asking to be educated about the matter based on the priors I have been told in the past.)

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#83

Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…

Arguing from first principles, the first step in detecting a problem is to know your device's baseline operation. This means knowing the bevvy of processes that are running, the resources they use, and the messages they send and to which hosts. With this baseline, you can now see if something is going wrong - a process you don't recognize, connecting to hosts you don't recognize, and so on.

Of course, this is also the step where almost everyone, including devs, fail. How many devs know their phone to this degree? Even for our laptops, we tend to give way too much leeway to 3rd party binaries, and allow the environment to get so noisy that any kind of signal is impossible to detect. It's a depressing trade-off we (almost) all make for convenience, using the (almost) good enough assumption that we're safe in the herd. It's actually a very, very dumb assumption and I feel like it's something of a hacker golden age because of it, and as long as they don't get too greedy and spook the herd, the gravy train is here to stay.

On argument against doing even this is that a hacker can take steps to hide their process. This has happened on PCs, with rootkits that hide certain processes. This may happen for phone malware, if only to make it harder to automate detection and removal, if not to guard against watchful users (of which there are precious few).

In terms of capability, I speculate that the best an attacker can achieve is a sticky, privileged process that accepts arbitrary commands at runtime, which can be used to read the disk, analyze other running processes, install and exfil sensor data, etc. From the attacker's POV for high value targets, it probably feels like ssh'ing into a mystery box, and "see what you can do" - and they probably have a (growing) library of scripts to check for easy, juicy things. (I would guess that they would hate to see bespoke applications that have to be understood and reversed to get value out of.)

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#84

Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…

If you care about this, consider using a security-oriented OS on desktop based on hardware virtualization: https://qubes-os.org. In this case, if you use your phone only to confirm the transactions (as the second factor), you should be safe enough.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s already been patched long time ago. No one is running around with anger. This is unprecedented and new information is coming out that shows how influential people, opposition and politicians were targeted worldwide.

Good for us if it's so. I'm just concerned about the bugs existed for long enough for the exploit to be relevant and still haunting some diplomats' phones, despite so many publications. And many people discussing legal and political (doomed to be inefficient IMHO) rather than technical solutions.

This revelation comes from a security investigation that the Finnish government started in autumn 2021. So when the exploit was discovered, they checked to see if they were hit and hopefully too actions to protect themselves if they were.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#86
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a separate phone specifically used for banking (since banks require me to install their 2fa app on my phone) and have a unique sim card that I only use for banks. It's not 100% foolproof I guess but at least it reduces my risk.

Ah, i see SMS and account insecurity has increased the telecom’s revenue. The security lapses will only get worse.

That's entirely true, but then again, that second sim card costs me 20 usd a year, so it's a cheap insurance.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#87

Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…

If you care about this, consider using a security-oriented OS on desktop based on hardware virtualization: https://qubes-os.org . In this case, if you use your phone only to confirm the transactions (as the second factor), you should be safe enough.

How can you prove that this is more secure against state level actors than iOS which have billions (?) of users? In modern phones there are multiple levels of sandboxing already. If some state really wants to target you, I would say that this is more insecure solution.

The most common OS are very heavily tested because of the user amount. These "secure" operating systems have niche amount of users which further reduces the amount of testing. And this is the only helping factor you - it is more beneficial to target operating systems which have a larger adaption. You need to be on high priority that they start developing exploits only for you who is using some random OS.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#88
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you care about this, consider using a security-oriented OS on desktop based on hardware virtualization: https://qubes-os.org . In this case, if you use your phone only to confirm the transactions (as the second factor), you should be safe enough.

How can you prove that this is more secure against state level actors than iOS which have billions (?) of users? In modern phones there are multiple levels of sandboxing already. If some state really wants to target you, I would say that this is more insecure solution. The most common OS are very heavily tested because of the user amount. These "secure" operating systems have niche amount of users which further reduc…

> How can you prove that this is more secure against state level actors than iOS which have billions (?) of users?

By comparing the number of exploits? Qubes relies on Xen, which is used by very big targets, so should be under constant attacks. Qubes uses hardware (VT-d) virtualization, which AFAIK was last time broken by the Qubes founder in 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software).

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you prove that this is more secure against state level actors than iOS which have billions (?) of users? In modern phones there are multiple levels of sandboxing already. If some state really wants to target you, I would say that this is more insecure solution. The most common OS are very heavily tested because of the user amount. These "secure" operating systems have niche amount of users which further reduc…

> How can you prove that this is more secure against state level actors than iOS which have billions (?) of users? By comparing the number of exploits? Qubes relies on Xen, which is used by very big targets, so should be under constant attacks. Qubes uses hardware (VT-d) virtualization, which AFAIK was last time broken by the Qubes founder in 2003: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software) .

> By comparing the number of exploits? Qubes relies on Xen, which is used by very big targets, so should be under constant attacks

This is often giving quite misleading conclusions based on what I just said - iOS for example is much more popular and heavily tested - of course the amount of exploits is much larger, because it is also much more interesting target as many are using it.

How many people are using phones/laptops which are based on Xen? Xen is commonly used on server side - not by those guys who are holding the interesting stuff on their personal devices.

Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware

#90

Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…

If you care about this, consider using a security-oriented OS on desktop based on hardware virtualization: https://qubes-os.org . In this case, if you use your phone only to confirm the transactions (as the second factor), you should be safe enough.

If you are super paranoid, ask your bank to disable all remote access to your account and go into the branch in person when you want to do something.
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