Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not at all like in the dotcom days. Unlike SQL injections, these aren’t low skill attacks that can be mounted by skiddies.
You are right in that these attacks takes more skills or a little bit of money, so in that regard it's not the same. But in multiple ways I think it's the same; like that it's obvious that security is still not a priority when building the software and that you as a user have to assume that the platforms are compromised.
Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
71–80 of 113 posts
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#72Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s already been patched long time ago. No one is running around with anger. This is unprecedented and new information is coming out that shows how influential people, opposition and politicians were targeted worldwide.
Good for us if it's so. I'm just concerned about the bugs existed for long enough for the exploit to be relevant and still haunting some diplomats' phones, despite so many publications. And many people discussing legal and political (doomed to be inefficient IMHO) rather than technical solutions.
I am not saying that these issues can/will be solved by legal and political means (especially given that it is not restricted to a single country), but it seems rather unlikely that these issues can be solved by pure technical means at the current point.
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right in that these attacks takes more skills or a little bit of money, so in that regard it's not the same. But in multiple ways I think it's the same; like that it's obvious that security is still not a priority when building the software and that you as a user have to assume that the platforms are compromised.
Any reasonably complex piece of software will have vulnerabilities. In other words, vulnerabilities are not a variable for the security equation, they are a constant. When designing something, vulnerabilities will exist. Generally, vulnerabilities, on their own, are not a great indication of how security is prioritized internally in any company.
You can go and talk about complex software and that vulnerabilities will always exists how much you want, but there is no excuse for these big companies to not fix major bugs like this within a week from when it's been reported. I don't care if that means that the developers have to postpone their fancy AI face recognition feature that will make your face look like an emoji. NO EXCUSES.
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#75Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…
I have a separate phone specifically used for banking (since banks require me to install their 2fa app on my phone) and have a unique sim card that I only use for banks. It's not 100% foolproof I guess but at least it reduces my risk.
The security lapses will only get worse.
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#76How does it get installed? I'm imagining some spy stealing the phone and installing it.
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#77I propose that any article like this don't refer to it as "NSO spyware", but instead refer to it as "Israeli spyware". The reality is that while NSO Group is a private company, it has deep links to the Israeli government and generally doesn't allow it's services to be used against the interests of the Israeli state. Hiding behind a corporate name to maintain Israel's reputation in international media isn't really oka…
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#78What about patching the vulnerabilities rather than running around with anger? We can sue the hell out of them and convince the Israeli government to ban them altogether but this is obviously doomed to repeat, somebody will inevitably take the place sooner or later, legally or illegally.
Patching won't help, if you are diplomat, that has to use communication towers in a country, that is spying on you. Also, phone OS all allow incoming of sms, that are not visible - because that is how they are built. Those messages are there for technical reasons and that is also making them easy to exploit. Also, Israeli government simply can't forbid their companies to do, what US companies are not forbidden to do,…
Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#79Re: Finnish diplomats’ phones infected with NSO Group Pegasus spyware
#80Although I'm certainly no celebrity / important likely target of hackers, I'm interested in this just because recently I've gotten paranoid about my financial accounts (after a company I used to work for finally went public and I was fortunate to cash out an amount of $). When hackers use such exploits, do they then basically have something like remote control over your phone, and can start exfiltrating data / manipu…
1. Access any data on the device regardless of application security (including applications that may request a separate password be entered as this password entry can be captured). This access includes logging into web services (e-mail included) pretending to be your phone and downloading or manipulating information stored or transmitted by the service.
2. Enable the microphone and cameras at any time.
3. Track location at any time via enabling GPS or monitoring for nearby WiFi, Bluetooth of cell tower device IDs.
4. Modify the user interface to report incorrect status, for example, incorrect battery level, GPS disabled when it's really enabled, incorrect data transfer amounts, etc.
5. Connect to other devices via WiFi or Bluetooth and interrogate them to find other devices or people nearby, and potentially attack those devices too.
An attacker can achieve similar outcomes with root access into other electronic devices--laptops, tablets, desktop computers, watches, TVs, WiFi-enabled LED light bulbs, home appliances, cars, etc. Obviously what can do with a device depends on the sensors contained within (must have a camera sensor to secretly take images or video).
Unless the attacker is reckless with turning on the video camera, microphone, GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc all at once and draining battery much faster than expected, or transferring large amounts of data, you generally wouldn't notice anything different about your device. You would also probably have a hard time actively detecting the attack as the implant would be constantly watching for signs of debugging/investigation and disable/delete itself in such situations.
Generally the implant would be non-persistent only residing in volatile memory of the device that would be forgotten soon after the device is powered down. Regardless of persistence, capturing the implant from the device would be very difficult and expensive to perform for an individual, but within reach of a state actor or security researchers with a lot of time on their hands to accomplish should they have the patience.
It an implant were to be persistent and survive a device reboot, you could rapidly turn off the device (physically cut power from the battery), desolder the non-volatile memory chips and recover data similar to the process shown in [1]. There would be more steps involved if the device is encrypted (for example key is held in a TPM) but as you know the password to unlock the device, you could just ask the TPM nicely to give up the key. Failing that, there is FIB editing or other attacks against TPMs to recover keys. See [2] and [3] for some examples.
To detect a non-persistent implant, you'd follow a similar process but would have to quickly cool the volatile memory chip (see [3]) and then cut lines to the chip and insert new probes instead of desoldering it (the heat from desoldering would result in the volatile memory being cleared too quickly). Apple's Secure Enclave processor, as an example of a growing trend, encrypts and decrypts blocks of data stored in and retrieved from volatile memory so you'd additionally need to attack the Secure Enclave processor to retrieve the required keys to decrypt the volatile memory with.
The irony is that same security features which are designed to keep your device secure also inadvertently makes it prohibitively time consuming and expensive to inspect your device to detect a hidden implant in use. If you're concerned you could be a target (investigative journalists for example), the best approach is probably to assume the device is always compromised and use non-technological approaches to avoid or frustrate an attacker. Or perhaps you could find security researchers who'd love nothing more than finding and unraveling the secrets of a sophisticated implant (see [5]).
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXDUhhyY2rE&t=133s (recover data Samsung Galaxy directly from phone memory | HDD Recovery Services)
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vnik_iUuUs (Exposing The Deep-Secure Elements Of Smartcards | Christopher Tarnovsky | hardwear.io USA 2019)
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M46Ol4gltbI (Focused Ion Beam TEM Lamella Prep Tutorial | Nicholas Rudawski)
[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej-Nr79bVjg (Cold Boot Attacks on Encryption Keys | J. Alex Halderman, Seth D. Schoen, Nadia Heninger, William Clarkson, William Paul, Joseph A. Calandrino, Ariel J. Feldman, Jacob Appelbaum, and Edward W. Felten | 17th USENIX Security Symposium 2008)
[5] https://citizenlab.ca/2020/12/the-great-ipwn-journalists-hac...