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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#291

Post by dylan604 »

fortran77 wrote: post #96
uxp100 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I have an AC window unit from Miele that is a great piece of hardware. But the app, my god, it's so bad. Every launch of the app requires a log in. Every log in error messages pop up about api endpoint such and such, but it works anyway. If a command fails, which it does half the time, the app gets out of sync with the unit (i.e. app will say fan speed medium, unit will say fan speed low). So I guess it syncs st…

I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked. My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

>is that it's a tax on "rich people"

please, rich people don't even notice the cost of these pieces of equipment. the ones that might feel the pinch are the ones punch above their weight class to give of the look the are better off than they are. not much different from classes of cars that look like you make money, but every time you take them to the dealership, minimum $800.

if that's a tax on rich people, then they aren't very rich.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#292

Post by jillesvangurp »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #151

This is what happens when engineers are overruled by marketing. It gets Wifi because the competition has Wifi. The competition has Wifi because some committee thought it was a great way to upsell the product.

... and the market proved them right by virtue of people actually buying the things.

What people say they want and what they actually do in the store are two completely different things. They'll say they want the basic, easy to use model that just does what it says. When in the store, they see all these products and complex feature lists and the nice sales person up sells them the convoluted thing that they never needed. Works for phones. Works for TVs. Works for Cameras. Works for cars.

A smart dish washer has a slight premium over a dumb one. This might not be valuable for everyone but there is a rather large category of people that can be easily talked into paying that premium. They'll buy features just based on a notion of getting more value for their money even if they arguably will never use those features.

People are just easy to manipulate into spending more than they should. I used to work at Nokia when they still made phones and for a long term they created endless variations of the same 3 basic software platforms. One in particular, S40, was used for dozens of different phone models per calendar year. These were largely the same phones with features turned off/on, slightly different form factors, and different software and hardware versions.

This BTW was not Symbian (a common misunderstanding) but a feature phone platform that started out in the mid nineties. The first model to market was the flip phone in the Matrix. Symbian also started around that time but was a completely different OS.

The main point here is: most customers had no clue what they were buying. They bought a "Nokia". And when they were in the store they wanted the best Nokia they could afford. Which was basically a process of selecting based on shininess (literally with the Vertu phones, which were actually unimpressive feature wise) and check-marks in some huge feature matrix (more is better).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#293

Post by dylan604 »

HotHotLava wrote: post #287
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons. If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

I don't have a smart dishwasher, but I think an API to display the current salt level and a web UI that has some space to display and comfortable configure the various settings instead of 6 incomprehensible buttons would certainly be things I'd be interested in.

or, you know, you could do what everyone has done up until "smart". check the levels each time you load it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#294

Post by frosted-flakes »

pmontra wrote: post #137
slig wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting a Piezoelectric Sensor, RPi, couple of resistors, and a clamping diode.

This assumes a lot of extra skills and knowledge. As a Linux user I know RPi pretty well but piezoelectric is something I used to light gas, resistors are something I studied at school (and things that heat), a diode... maybe, but clamping? I won't be able to put those pieces together. I'd buy a smart plug with a http url to call to turn it on and off and make a web app running on a RPi at home to manage that plug.

I'm pretty sure that was a sarcastic reference to that well-known dropbox comment.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#295

Post by alasdair_ »

nitrogen wrote: post #227
alasdair_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it should be possible to prove the firmware error-free perhaps they tried, but got stuck on the bit where they tried to figure out if it halts or not.

This is probably a joke, but tbe halting problem is way overused and doesn't apply in situations where a non-Turing-complete computer is running a known (not arbitrary) program.

Yes, definitely a joke :)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#296

Post by dylan604 »

ajoseps wrote: post #225
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons. If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

this probably doesn't need to be remote, but having a dishwasher start at a certain time e.g. when electricity is cheaper, might be good

My dishwasher from the 1980s had a delay start feature and it's as dumb as a bump on a log that allows for this.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#297

Post by epicide »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #276
formerly_proven wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Miele (and BSH) is really good at industrial design in my experience so I'd be surprised if they'd do something like that. However, I also don't really see a particular reason why a dishwasher needs WiFi. Do people actually like... check on them and come running to unload it when it's done? I suppose for checking if it needs dishwasher salt or rinse aid it could make sense but ... eh

My first reaction was to write a comment about why you don't need WiFi on a dishwasher. Then I found there may be use cases: you want to start the washing program from the office so it finishes right before you get home. That day when you need to stay another hour in the office, being able to interact with the machine is a nice to have, even if not a really important thing. Same as with air conditioning when you want…

If you already have the dishwasher loaded with the dishes before you leave for work, why not just run it then?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#299

Post by Someone1234 »

qalmakka wrote: post #281

There should be, by law, a "dumb mode" on all non-computing devices. Something that disables all smart features and reverts the device back to its basics. This "smart home" trend is a dangerous fad that trades security and privacy for very dubious gains.

Most of the time there is: Do not connect it to the internet.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#300

Post by lordnacho »

michaelt wrote: post #51
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Important to remember these kinds of devices might not have any personal info on them, but they can still be useful for DDoS attacks and other things that are bad for everyone.
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