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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#231

Post by micromacrofoot »

tremon wrote: post #24
eli wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No software is perfect when shipped. Most dishwashers have had updatable firmware for at least a decade, it just normally required a technician connecting to it with a cable.

No software is perfect when shipped Why not? Or rather, why do we accept this as the norm? A dishwasher isn't that complex, it should be possible to prove the firmware error-free.

> A dishwasher isn't that complex

There's a good chance you're underestimating what a modern dishwasher does. They're fairly complex machines.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#232

Post by sofixa »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> There's a Home Assistant integration too, but I've not done that (my VLAN setup prevented it!).

Can't you have the machine running HA on two vlans or route with your router?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#233

Post by watwut »

masklinn wrote: post #207
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons. If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

> I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. Time-delay is in fact a rather useful feature e.g. 1. I may not want to start the dishwasher at 11 PM, especially if I’m in a condo and will prevent neighbours from sleeping 2. depending on the specifics of the dishwasher & local water, I may want it to finish soon before I come home so I can quickly dry the dishes (e.g. if wat…

Time-delay does not require remote control at all.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#234

Post by imiric »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #122
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons. If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

> The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons.

Playing devil's advocate, all modern appliances run software to some extent. A modern dishwasher that does auto-dispensing will be particularly more complex.

> If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

It's not out of the question that the firmware might need to be updated to manage liquids more efficiently, tweak cycle timings, pressure, temperature, etc. It's no different than an EV for which you can install custom firmware to change its behavior.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#236

Post by lifeisstillgood »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

What are you using as your home router setup? (off topic but interested)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#237

Post by _fat_santa »

erwincoumans wrote: post #110
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Another Tesla Model 3 owner with firmware v11? :)

Gotta take inspiration from the best in UX /s

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#238

Post by Victerius »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #179
fsflover wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"

I am rabid over futuristic/techno/sci-fi stuff, but I don't think turning everything into a mini computer is the right way forward.

By all means, turn our home PCs into supercomputers and our televisions into 3D hologram projectors, but let "dumb" but reliable goods persist.

Next they'll start making smart cissors, smart drinking glasses, smart pens...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#239

Post by Aeolun »

nsxwolf wrote: post #192
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

As long as I clean my dishes before I put them in the washer, I never have any issues.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#240

Post by arsome »

OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

Pretty sure any dishwasher on the market in the past decade uses at least a simple microcontroller, just because it's the cheapest way to achieve all their control and user interactions.
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