Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 597 posts

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#201

Post by ninkendo »

WilTimSon wrote: post #67
krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

To play devil's advocate, that's one-time setup, it's not like you have to do it every time you launch a dishwasher. I still see little value in "smart" devices but it's not like they actively make you work more for the same result. I'm more worried about everything being dependent on WiFi and your personal data.

If every little thing you buy has a similar "one-time setup", you're going to be doing a lot of setting things up in your average day/week/month.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#202

Post by Agentlien »

hawski wrote: post #83

* Insert quote from Ubik by P. K. Dick * I'm glad that I have around 20 year old Bosch dishwasher. It has one button and one knob and it doesn't beep. For home automation I sometimes would like to add a lowest quality webcam pointed towards lights to see if it has finished. But not for the dishwasher - it always takes the same time and is quick enough. It could be useful for the washing machine, but not enough for me…

I have a Bosch dishwasher from a few years ago. It has a few buttons for timer (which I never use), different levels of how dirty your dishes are (which I use all the time), start, and power on/off. It's simple to use, it works great and I can't think of any extra software features I would like.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#203

Post by foxfluff »

gwn1 wrote: post #20
llampx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a self-created problem.

Almost all problems are self created, sadly. This is how complexity spirals out of control particularly in software so quickly

And not enough people are fighting back. There's always someone who can come up with one legitimate use case for the complexity, and thus it has to be accepted.. somehow that use case is never weighed against the cost of complexity, or the cost is always underestimated or outright dismissed.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#205

Post by nrvn »

here is the problem statement:

1. Get a technology proven to have solved a given problem more than 100 years ago.

2. Throw ICs on top of it.

3. Put “smart” into marketing materials.

4. …

5. Profit

There is nothing in any dishwasher[0], fridge, vacuum cleaner, washing machine, ${you_name_the_home_appliance} that would require to be smarter than they are without those (actually far from smart) hardware and software that is being installed and imposed on customers. If combined with the planned obsolescence[1] it creates a perfect combo.

[0] - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13909365

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#206

Post by giantg2 »

sneak wrote: post #149
giantg2 wrote: post #112

I fear for the day that we can no longer purchase dumb appliances, cars without connectivity/touchscreens/etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/no-airbags-w...

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#207

Post by masklinn »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #122
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start. The dishes get clean and it has no software just buttons. If the dishes get clean what further enhancements needed to be done?

> I have never once needed my dishwasher to be operated remotely. Load it and press start.

Time-delay is in fact a rather useful feature e.g.

1. I may not want to start the dishwasher at 11 PM, especially if I’m in a condo and will prevent neighbours from sleeping

2. depending on the specifics of the dishwasher & local water, I may want it to finish soon before I come home so I can quickly dry the dishes (e.g. if water is very hard)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#208

Post by sshagent »

nsxwolf wrote: post #192
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.

Isn't this the truth. Over Christmas family was around and someone loaded the dishwater and put it on economical or whatever the 'easy wash' mode was called, i chuckled knowing they might as well waved the dirty dishes in the sky for an equilavent wash. Its like, why are the other options even there...Intensive wash, every time.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#209

Post by micromacrofoot »

zbrozek wrote: post #181
duxup wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My clothes washer will alert me when it is done. It is handy if you have a lot of laundry to do (kids) and you want to be on top of doing one load after another / not forget.

Is the chime at the end of the cycle inadequate?

Yes, because it assumes you can hear it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#210

Post by usrbinbash »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

> Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo.

Or it is treated by the same algorithm like all the other cleaning powders, which is: "mix with water then spray through nozzles". Strangly enough, this has worked great for decades without firmware updates. For the longest time it even worked without firmware.

Post reply on HN