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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#101

Post by fortran77 »

alistairSH wrote: post #93
quacked wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. Back-up cameras are required to prevent drivers from running over small children. ABS and stability control to prevent crashes. Etc. And none of them, in a simple implementation, reduce the usability of the car/truck. No such mandates exist for home appliances. The connectivity/apps are purely a money-grab - either people like the general idea of connected dev…

> Back-up cameras are required to prevent drivers from running over small children.

Without backup cameras, eventually small children will evolve to be backup resistant.

> No such mandates exist for home appliances.

There are ever-increasing efficiency requirements, some of which all but require computerization.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#102

Post by tinus_hn »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #98
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> Looks like a Miele. Well, kind of what I expect when I buy a cheap dishwasher. (that's sarcasm)

Please wash verification can

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#103

Post by aceazzameen »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

A good interface consisting of anything such as lights, screens, buzzers, chimes, etc could tell/alert you about levels or the status of the dishwasher without an app too.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#104

Post by BeefWellington »

zrail wrote: post #56

The pro move is to set up a password-protected hidden guest Wi-Fi with client isolation and use it for every IoT device that needs internet but no local access. Bonus points if you put it on an isolated VLAN but that's homelab 201.

This will work for this generation of devices.

The impending next-generation devices that will come with their own embedded 3G/4G antennae are going to pose a whole new set of problems.

Manufacturers do already build in dead-man switches into some products, and the more that do this, the more this becomes a problem because then even disabling an antenna will not work. It would be down to requiring custom firmware for a device.

This is an area right-to-repair legislation could address and prevent this.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#105

Post by duffyjp »

avs733 wrote: post #28
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

We have one it’s great. The ability to start it, and confirm it’s started is a game changer. Especially because it’s preloaded with the chemicals. We don’t want to start it until we’re sure all the floating dishes actually got loaded. There’s a stray dish, a glass, life’s just a little chaotic getting dinner cleaned up and everyone to bed. We forget or we hit start but someone else opens it to add something. Without…

My ~25 year old dishwasher has a delay-start. That solved the stray dish issue for us.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#106

Post by technothrasher »

ensignavenger wrote: post #49
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

The only thing I could think of that would be useful would be delayed starting. Often we load the dishwasher but don't want to start it right away for one reason or another... usually though a simple button to start in 1..2..3.. hours would be fine, though. And I don't think that feature is worth the tradeoffs. Especially if it requires an Internet connection to use, instead of just talking directing to my personal h…

You don't need a wifi connection for delayed start. Every dishwasher I've owned in the past 20 years has had a delayed start button.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#107

Post by Cthulhu_ »

scrollaway wrote: post #61
stragies wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that tweet is click-bait meant to generate outrage clicks and follows. Most of the submissions on the front-page have -at best- incomplete titles.

I'd have given the poster the benefit of the doubt but then they come out with hate-inciting nonsense trash like this: https://twitter.com/isislovecruft/status/1487947782585417728 I don't even know what to make of that anymore. Just because it's self-deprecating doesn't make it okay.

...do you feel attacked by the word 'nerd'?

I mean the tweet is putting the blame at the wrong people (it's a business decision after all), but I wouldn't go as far as call it "hate-inciting nonsense". You're not under attack.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#108

Post by OtomotO »

ludamad wrote: post #69
OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

Is detecting clean water not done in software?

I live in a country with only clean water :X

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#109

Post by tannhaeuser »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #8

What reason could a dishwasher have for a firmware update? Did they not test their dishwasher? did they lock away features behind a subscription? Why would it need a security update if it wasn't internet connected?

Could be analyzing waste water and come up with ads such as "I see you're running out of milk/juice/cocaine/whatever; would you like me to order some for you?" or "Hey, your current brand of is unhealthy/expensive/difficult-to-wash-off; I suggest instead; btw click here to order your free subscription".

I would've hoped the current shortage of chips can put an end to this and 5G perma-surveillance, but here we are ...

Edit: not to speak of "We've detected remnants of the XYZ strain of the virus; please isolate yourself now. This message has been passed on to the ministry of health and education. Thanks for your cooperation."

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#110

Post by erwincoumans »

pmontra wrote: post #79
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Another Tesla Model 3 owner with firmware v11? :)
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