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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#81

Post by snek_case »

michaelt wrote: post #51
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Wouldn't want hackers to hack your analog dishwasher through the power grid!

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#82

Post by bmj »

tyingq wrote: post #35
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

Most of them are sort of silly, but it does have some options that make use of the "smartness". The manual is here: https://www.mieleusa.com/pmedia/ZGA/TX2070/10546880-000-01_1... Most of the smart stuff is in "settings" starting on page 64. Stuff like configuring it to run only during a low electric rate period (nights). Notifying you when filters need changing. Keeping track of detergent reservoir levels.

My (non-internet connected) washing machine does this very thing. Why does an appliance need to be connected to a network to provide this functionality? So I can track it on my phone? As another comment pointed out, until these appliances can load themselves, I still need to be physically present at some point in time. An LED indicator can tell me to clean the filter or fill the cleaning reservoir, and I don't have to enter my WiFi information or download security updates.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#83

Post by hawski »

* Insert quote from Ubik by P. K. Dick *

I'm glad that I have around 20 year old Bosch dishwasher. It has one button and one knob and it doesn't beep.

For home automation I sometimes would like to add a lowest quality webcam pointed towards lights to see if it has finished. But not for the dishwasher - it always takes the same time and is quick enough. It could be useful for the washing machine, but not enough for me to care.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#84

Post by nmstoker »

tremon wrote: post #24
eli wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No software is perfect when shipped. Most dishwashers have had updatable firmware for at least a decade, it just normally required a technician connecting to it with a cable.

No software is perfect when shipped Why not? Or rather, why do we accept this as the norm? A dishwasher isn't that complex, it should be possible to prove the firmware error-free.

And the UX should be a lot better on various white goods too: simple, intuitive and unobtrusive. I love my Miele dishwasher (not WiFi enabled!) but my Zanusi washer/dryer is utterly terrible in this respect.

Despite plenty of great physical abilities of the washer/dryer, it's almost ruined by a useless UX that obsessively locks one out of all sorts of perfectly legitimate transitions, meaning one has to frequently turn it off and back on to force the change of activity, adding frustration for something that could easily be handled if only they'd not crippled the device and made you wait while you cycle it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#85

Post by evancoop »

The most common response is likely along the lines of "we don't need our dishwashers connected to the internet, this is unnecessary, another failure mode, another invasion, etc."

The more interesting question is who, in the bowels of the manufacturer's corporate headquarters, determined that this feature added value, how was it priced, and what, if anything was done after the fact to assess whether the additional cost was justified?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#86

Post by pmontra »

quacked wrote: post #55
krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

I think incumbents love over regulation. A wider and wider moat.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#87

Post by [deleted] »

scrollaway wrote: post #61
stragies wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that tweet is click-bait meant to generate outrage clicks and follows. Most of the submissions on the front-page have -at best- incomplete titles.

I'd have given the poster the benefit of the doubt but then they come out with hate-inciting nonsense trash like this: https://twitter.com/isislovecruft/status/1487947782585417728 I don't even know what to make of that anymore. Just because it's self-deprecating doesn't make it okay.

[deleted]

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#88

Post by alkonaut »

tremon wrote: post #24
eli wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No software is perfect when shipped. Most dishwashers have had updatable firmware for at least a decade, it just normally required a technician connecting to it with a cable.

No software is perfect when shipped Why not? Or rather, why do we accept this as the norm? A dishwasher isn't that complex, it should be possible to prove the firmware error-free.

The wifi isn't there for the firmware, it's there for the wifi functionality (Don't ask why it needs wifi functoinality, I can't answer).

But once you do have wifi functionality so you have wifi hardware, then the thing needs patching and upgrades too. Maybe some server address has changed, maybe a security fix, etc. And obviously if you have wifi hardware, it's the easy way to upgrade the software.

So the question I think isn't "Why does the firmware need to be updated at all"? It likely wouldn't, if the firmware just made the machine clean dishes. The question one should ask is, why does it have network features at all? What possible use case can exist?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#89

Post by cure »

OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

> The dishwasher I buy will never need software.

If you have that option. Not sure if you've shopped for white goods recently, but the options without wifi are relatively few, and mostly lower end models.

We needed a new stove, I wanted one without wifi/internet connectivity. Due to the above and supply chain issues that limited availability of a lot of models, I didn't have a choice and ended up with a model with wifi/internet connectivity. I have, of course, not connected it.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#90

Post by streamofdigits »

In the near future there will be an illicit underground market for dumb devices that don't "dial home". Anybody seen to buy such devices will be ostracized as somebody having "something to hide", e.g., when and what they wash, what is in their fridge etc.

Dumb cars that are spotted on the highway without matching digital footprints will be confiscated on the spot.

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