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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#61

Post by scrollaway »

stragies wrote: post #18
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

Yeah, that tweet is click-bait meant to generate outrage clicks and follows. Most of the submissions on the front-page have -at best- incomplete titles.

I'd have given the poster the benefit of the doubt but then they come out with hate-inciting nonsense trash like this: https://twitter.com/isislovecruft/status/1487947782585417728

I don't even know what to make of that anymore. Just because it's self-deprecating doesn't make it okay.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#62

Post by reustle »

zrail wrote: post #56

The pro move is to set up a password-protected hidden guest Wi-Fi with client isolation and use it for every IoT device that needs internet but no local access. Bonus points if you put it on an isolated VLAN but that's homelab 201.

I’m pretty sure the pro move is to never connect your dishwasher to the internet in the first place.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#63

Post by yholio »

Pro-tip: never connect any appliance, vehicle or device to the internet unless you really need the internet-enabled functionality. What you want is dumb devices that work reliably within their initial operating parameters and have a security air-gap.

This prevents exploitation of their crufty software, but also prevents the manufacturer to brick or otherwise use them against you with unscrupulous updates. If a software update exists, you will apply it manually if you are bothered by the specific bugs.

Never auto-update embedded software, never trust them on your network if they don't belong there, never trust their programmers to do anything but a half-ass hack, the absolute minimum required to get the product out the door, expecting they will issue updates.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#64

Post by jhkiehna »

OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

But dude... How else are you gonna turn it on remotely? WOuldn't it be awesome to be able to load it, walk away for several hours then turn it on from a different room?! That feature alone is totally worth all the extra hassle.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#66

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

da_chicken wrote: post #52
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

> what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? The purpose of IOT is pretty clear, although it is also pretty broad. It's a win-win for the manufacturer, but probably a ticking time bomb for the customer. The Good: 1. Reduce production costs by converting electronic control to digital control with COTS chips. 2. Reduce development costs by reducing the cost of correcting bug-free software. The system requir…

You missed one of the Bad:

* Potential for wifi chipsets to collect other data from your network and send to anywhere.

If you are going to do IoT or have wifi enabled appliances, setup a separate network for them to operate on. I find it easier to just not have them, so far.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#67

Post by WilTimSon »

krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

To play devil's advocate, that's one-time setup, it's not like you have to do it every time you launch a dishwasher. I still see little value in "smart" devices but it's not like they actively make you work more for the same result. I'm more worried about everything being dependent on WiFi and your personal data.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#68

Post by OtomotO »

"Smart device" isn't the correct term.

The device isn't smart, it's just a big social experiment to check whether you're smart enough not to buy one. (and sadly too many people have failed, so they increased their efforts to get meaningful data by getting rid of other options. Nowadays you often can only buy "smart" devices, or you repair your old stuff)

All they do is take away more time and make once simple tasks overly complex... oh, and they break more easily than previous generations it seems. Which only makes sense.

My mother cried on the phone when she had replaced her washing machine with a "smart" one, that only made her life more complex.

She had bought the same brand for over 30 years, now she will never buy one of their machines again.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#69

Post by ludamad »

OtomotO wrote: post #46

My dishwasher needs no software. The dishwasher I buy will never need software. I am a software engineer and I love technology, but I love simple technology and when something doesn't need software, I don't add software just for the sake of having software.

Is detecting clean water not done in software?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#70

Post by mrweasel »

krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

My dad got a smart heater, for my parents holiday home. The idea is that he can check temperature, and prevent frost damage from home. Yesterday he ask: "What happens it the company that makes the App decides that they don't what to do that anymore, or they go out of business?". Well, then the smart thingy stops being smart.
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