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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#131

Post by beerandt »

mulmen wrote: post #87
School-Cotton wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course anyone who believes in freedom of speech would agree that Young and Mitchell have the right to pull their music. That doesn’t change the fact that one can disagree with that decision.

> That doesn’t change the fact that one can disagree with that decision. Obviously, but that's not the topic at hand. > I were Spotify the move is to take the free speech position There is no "free speech position". Spotify, Rogan, Young, and Mitchell are all exercising their right to free expression here.

Using leverage in an attempt to convince a business to silence someone else...

is not an argument for free expression.

It's free expression arguing against allowing others to exercise free expression.

>There is no "free speech position".

Who is Rogan trying to silence?

Spotify didn't give into demands to censor.

Those are free speech positions.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#132

Post by unfocussed_mike »

fortran77 wrote: post #47

I like Joni Mitchell and Neil Young. However, if I didn't, I simply wouldn't listen to them. Which is exactly what I do with Joe Rogan. I tried his show, it wasn't for me. It's interesting that Joni Mitchell also promotes controversial and unrecognized medical information, such as "Morgellons Disease" See: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/morgellons-diseas... > The 71-year-old singer first discussed her bat…

Just a side note to say that absolutely everyone who claims to suffer from Morgellons Disease, as she at one point did claim, is struggling with significant mental illness and should probably be treated with some kindness on that point. It's not news that Joni Mitchell has had significant mental health challenges in her life.

It doesn't make her wrong about the benefits of vaccination.

It's not really comparable with Neil Young's GMO position (which I concede is partly unscientific).

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#133

Post by ch4s3 »

guerrilla wrote: post #121
ch4s3 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they're in the seed selling business and make seeds that can survive being sprayed with herbicide. Farmers agree not to save the seed when they purchase them. But no one is forcing them to buy those seeds, they could buy different ones and use different and less effective herbicides. The one guy they drug into court was not only saving them, he was reselling them to other farmers which seems like a straightforwa…

> But no one is forcing them to buy those seeds This isn't true. Those seeds produce fertile plants that reproduce with plants from surrounding farms and farmers are prevented for saving those seeds. I don't know what you mean by "one guy" as they do it all the time in India from what I've read.

> Those seeds produce fertile plants that reproduce with plants from surrounding and farmers are prevented for saving those seeds.

This isn't true. While they do cross pollinate, farmers aren't being sued for picking up some stray genes, this is a myth.[1][2] They seem like total assholes, but there's no evidence that they're suing people who are accidentally picking up the roundup ready genes. Every case I could find where a farmer claims that, they're able to show that the farmer in question intentionally selected those crops, replanted entire fields with those seeds, and were often selling them to neighbors.

> I don't know what you mean by "one guy"

I'm referring to the famous case in the US that made it's way into a Netflix documentary.

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/10/18/163034053/to....

[2] https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/06/01/dissecting-cla...

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#134

Post by [deleted] »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

This needs to be drilled harder: People can express their views until cows come home. Knock yourself out. But, that's precisely what Young is not doing. He wants to silence (and deny the FoS) Rogan. That is the distinction that keeps being ignored in this thread and elsewhere.

[deleted]

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#135

Post by imglorp »

kennywinker wrote: post #12

I switched to Tidal last year. Spotify is notoriously one of the worst streaming services in terms of what it pays artists, and then there was this: https://themusicessentials.com/news/daniel-ek-e100-million-i... (spotify ceo investing in AI weapons company). While Tidal’s app is a little rough around the edges, and their auto-playlist stuff isn’t quite as smart, it has a solid catalogue and i’m pretty happy with it.

Moving now.

There seems to be a whole middleman ecosystem pasting together playlist APIs from different services for people migrating around. Tidal links to one but does not do the import themselves.

I'm surprised there are so many and they all feel like gatekeeping and upsell are their patterns.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#136

Post by lnxg33k1 »

newfriend wrote: post #128
zapataband1 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isnt a free speech issue. Neil Young is not the government nor is spotify. If Neil Young didn't want to be on the same tv show as joe rogan nobody would care. This amounts to the exact same thing.

So freedom of speech only exists if government is involved? I don't think that's correct. These artists are attempting to use pressure to silence someone else. That's 100% a "free speech" issue.

Consider one thing that I found extremely upsetting, as european, like the BBC was attacked for spreading misinformation only to have REPORTED news of people protesting in cities against lockdown measures

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#137

Post by porcoda »

manquer wrote: post #36
porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

Are there good tools which let you manage a catalogue? Either SaaS or self+hosted ? It is hassle to manage your own files on all your devices.I would rather i had app like Spotify but streaming files owned by me.

I use iTunes Match for making stuff available in the cloud (eg, so i can access it all from my phone), and locally store it all on a NAS. Pretty easy.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#138

Post by unfocussed_mike »

torstenvl wrote: post #48
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Out of touch"? They are both survivors of childhood polio, making a very timely point about vaccinations. [downvoted for this? really?]

Are they childhood survivors of authoritarian governments that turned into oligarchies? Maybe if they had been, they wouldn't be so convinced that rich and famous people should get to decide what ideas other people are exposed to.

> Are they childhood survivors of authoritarian governments that turned into oligarchies?

Yep. They are both Canadian.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#139

Post by gonehome »

mulmen wrote: post #120
gonehome wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in this specific case a couple of easy reasons. Rogan’s deal was $100M which is way more money than Young. So if it’s a business move than keeping Rogan is the obvious choice as he provides way more value to Spotify. I care less about that though and more about the principled position here. In this case I think they’re the same.

And I don't think your principles are sound. We are also participating in a marketplace of ideas. I'm not buying what you are selling. You are free to continue as you are, as am I.

I think private companies/platforms are able to exercise their speech in order to decide who is or isn’t on them.

Keeping or removing Rogan is an exercise of their speech and within their right to decide.

Still, I think it’s generally a bad idea to remove someone because of this kind of pressure. In Rogan’s specific case I also think it would be the wrong decision.

I’m against internet cancel mobs as a general rule.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#140

Post by beerandt »

johnchristopher wrote: post #97
woodruffw wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding of the GMO debate is that there are two kinds of GMO development: there's GMO for the purposes of making crops themselves hardier, more nutritious, etc., and then there's GMO for the purposes of making crops more resistant to novel pesticides, herbicides, etc. The agricultural industry likes to conflate the two, since the latter is much harder to defend. I have no idea what Neil Young actually believ…

Isn' t there another kind of GMO whose sole purpose is IP so farmers can' t reuse seeds from one season to the next ?

That's a contractual agreement made when buying the seeds.
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