> Most days I can do somewhere between one and two hours of hard thinky work. Wow. Once I start doing this kind of work I both have a hard time stopping (as I find working on such problems addictive, both in good ways and in bad) and feel like it takes at least a couple hours of loading state into my brain before I could even begin to be working "at speed" on a hard problem, which means I actively try to schedule my…
People don't work as much as they say
171–180 of 313 posts
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#172Its just important to realize that this relationship with labor is a privilege, because trust me, its not "everyone". If that privilege is obtained because you provide something more "skilled", ok, I guess I understand that. There is still an instinctual level where it still feels unjust to me. But thats just my emotions, I understand economics trumps them.
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#173Re: People don't work as much as they say
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another study here that uses an estimate for productivity. https://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf His models show peak productivity between 5 and 6 hours a day. In my own experience, I have found productivity more related to sleep and exercise than anything else. Getting 7 hours good sleep (which means winding down for at least 30 minutes before sleep, a stretching exercise or meditation), and enough exercise every day to ge…
Could you share some details about that defect metric and how you implemented it? Sounds interesting.
We wanted to get a handle on how often work went backwards in our life cycle, and why it went backward.
We had a JIRA lifecycle hook that asked for the reason for moving from SIT state back to Development state, or from UAT state back to Development state etc..
One of which was defect. A defect either being a confirmation that wasn't implemented as per the spec, or an edge case bug.
Test failures were different, we had automated testing so test case failures were picked up before the ticket moved on in the lifecycle.
We could also move completed tickets from Deployed to Review, if a production error was linked to a ticket. This movement could also be tagged as a defect in the same way.
We would then just query the jira database and report on it, by project, by assignee etc..
It wasn't a blame exercise, we were more interested in the % of tickets that moved backwards, and the relative percentages of causes for the move. Another category for example was 'Requirements Changed', we worked with banks, so we had a LOT of these!
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#175Is this true for everyone or is this a special specimen "Most days I can do somewhere between one and two hours of hard thinky work."? 5 - 10 hours of deep work per week required to get a Phd from Imperial. That's impressive.
When I was building the physical apparatus itself and plumbing it up, I was working 70 hour weeks because it was more or less mindless physical labor.
When I was writing software to operate the experiment or analyze data, I settled into more of a few hours a day of deep work pattern. Part of that might be the nature of science; after I implemented an idea, it might be hours before the experiment fully responded to my changes or the computers finished crunching numbers. And I needed that feedback to inform what I'd do next.
Writing my dissertation was somewhere in the middle. The actual writing required focus, but a lot of it was tracking down references or making figures, which required some thought but not too deep. That's probably the closest I came to a 40 hour week.
Based on other replies, it sounds like other people have experienced similar relationships of the nature of the work to their capacity to do it.
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#176I’ve been reading some variant of this, for many years. One of the reasons that I hated being a manager, was because the job involved a lot of sitting around, waiting for stuff to happen. I couldn’t work on my own projects (because I was on paid work time), and it would have been irresponsible, in the extreme, to put myself into the critical path (because it was no guarantee that I would be able to reliably work). I…
As a manager, your main job is to make your ICs effective at doing their work. That means you need to be dealing with poor performers, rewarding with outstanding performers, trying to improve uneven performers, managing expectations from your management and shielding your team from the vicissitudes of your bosses as much as possible, fighting for things your team needs while shielding them from the demoralizing reali…
Glad it's behind me, though.
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#177As you get more experienced, you may require less deep thinking to do your job, which boost productivity. However in our current world all fields are changing so rapidly that this is mostly wishful thinking.
The other factor is of course whether you're allowed to be productive. Even a day with "just" 3 or 4 meetings is practically destroyed from a productivity point of view, and this doesn't even account for email and chat. So even if willing to be more productive, you just can't. This particular problem never seems addressed, quite the opposite: "we need to collaborate more".
No, we don't. When you have 5 tasks and each task depends on others and requires a lot of collaboration then it's a crappy task, from a productivity point of view.
Aside from the distractions of professional communication, we should be honest about the additional distractions from personal devices. When I started work, nobody had a smartphone. Just a workstation with restricted internet. So there were few temptations.
Now it's unstoppable. It's right there in your pocket, begging for attention. Add in email, which the average person checks once every 6 minutes, and the conclusion is that we have near-zero concentration time.
It's a sad thing. If we would control distractions and carve out very clean packages of work, knowledge workers could probably switch to 4 hour workdays, 6 as a transition. The rest is fluff anyway. Why not double the work packages then, to meet 8 hours? Because our species simply can't.
But anyway, it won't happen. Let's just keep telling ourselves we work 10-12 hours whilst we piss our life away to a collective illusion.
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#178The author's analysis is so entirely subjective as to what constitutes "work" as to be meaningless. I certainly believe that most creative workers cannot spend 8 hours a day being creatively productive, although even there the variation is enormous. I used to observe a factor of 5 or more difference in productivity between the most productive and least productive of my engineering team, and a lot of that was due to t…
I have a lot of trouble believing this. You’re claiming that 60 hours minimum was standard for doctors yet somehow the nurses had enough sway to get away with 36 hours.
Ignoring how much of that as “active work”, I have trouble believing they are even in the facility for that many hours. Maybe residents, because they do get worked to death, but post residency I can’t imagine you could keep doctors while working them like this.
> My daughter-in-law, who teaches elementary school, has no "own time" between 8:00 AM and 4:00PM, other than a half hour break when her students are at lunch, and then works a couple of hours most evenings
I think you missed part of the article. Much of a teacher’s day is not hard mental work. Especially for established teachers who have done the work to build lesson plans already.
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#179For me this really depends on whether I'm "into it" or not. When I'm doing what I need to do but my heart isn't in it, I mostly match the "a few hours of real work per day" descriptions, doing my tasks in between some reading and chatting or whatever. Push it too hard, and I start getting into burn out territory.
But when I'm excited and really enjoying myself, watch out, I'm a fucking productivity monster. I can work cheerfully and with high energy basically nonstop, like I have to force myself to eat and sleep. I can do this many months in a row--empirically for the better part of a year before I chill out and go back to baseline. During these times taking a break is just annoying, I really want to be working, my mind is still there more or less no matter what I'm doing.
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One thing that may be interesting to note is that the degree to which I can do this partially depends on the type of work. I've done lots of different types of work in my life. Here's a tiered list in order of how nonstop I can go when I'm into it:
* S Tier -- I go from the moment I wake until I drop from exhaustion, cheerful, high energy the whole time * programming -- one exception that drops this to A tier sometimes is if the work is particularly intellectually demanding, like tricky math / comp sci stuff, like when I'm trying to do some kind of novel game dev or something * physical labor (eg. house construction)
* A Tier -- I can only do something like 10 hours/day of the main event, rubber-on-road work, while the rest of the time is spent thinking about and planning the main event stuff * art -- stopping this one feels more like fatigue, like the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I have to reset by low effort learning or browsing-with-intent-to-learn other artwork * writing -- this feels different, where after some thousands of words the "spirit isn't with me" anymore, like I know what I would write, but the verve is gone somehow, even though I have plenty of energy for outlining and planning
* B Tier -- I can do this similarly to S tier, wall to wall, high intensity work, but only for about a week to 10 days at a time. * people stuff (eg. group facilitation, mediating conflict, personal coaching)
Re: People don't work as much as they say
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just because you are at the office, doesn't mean you are actually working. Just like me sitting at my desk at home isn't actually working. The difference is that in the office people pretend to be working.
But if you're there, you're working. You can't spend that time out at a stadium watching a ballgame, or hiking through a forest, or catching up with old friends over coffee, or fixing that stubborn door on your house, or with your family. You're at work, in work mode and your time and energy are alloted to that. If you work for an agency, and sales is having a tough time closing a deal so there's no work for you toda…
I agree with you that sitting at my desk or being in the office is work time regardless of what I am doing and therefore should also be paid.