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People don't work as much as they say

drmaciver.substack.com

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Re: People don't work as much as they say

#151
Rule of a thumb: If a person brags how much he/she works, he/she likely doesn't work a lot.

Double, if the same person also an activist fighting for equality and 'fair' compensation. In such cases you're likely dealing with a hypocrite who should be terminated on the spot.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#152

I’ve been reading some variant of this, for many years. One of the reasons that I hated being a manager, was because the job involved a lot of sitting around, waiting for stuff to happen. I couldn’t work on my own projects (because I was on paid work time), and it would have been irresponsible, in the extreme, to put myself into the critical path (because it was no guarantee that I would be able to reliably work). I…

As a manager, your main job is to make your ICs effective at doing their work.

That means you need to be dealing with poor performers, rewarding with outstanding performers, trying to improve uneven performers, managing expectations from your management and shielding your team from the vicissitudes of your bosses as much as possible, fighting for things your team needs while shielding them from the demoralizing realities of working for a big company where HR and IT etc. don’t give two shits about the actual mission (if applicable), keeping an accurate budget, making sure your team is individually recognized for their success but that you take the blame for their failures, responding to changes in direction and getting your team on board, being the face of management even when that’s unpopular, and doing all the other little things required to keep the team going as effectively as possible.

There’s a lot of work to do there, and it can be incredibly rewarding when it’s going well and incredibly frustrating when it’s not.

It can also mean you have days when your team is working all out to deliver and the only thing you can do is order pizza and keep distractions away. Those are boring, often frustrating days.

It’s not for everybody, but that’s what I think a good manager does. I think it’s often easier when you manage a team and aren’t an expert at what they do (although you still need to understand at a relatively deep level), since that minimizes the chances of you trying to dive in and solve the problem.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#153
post #56

I don't think people who say they work 14 hours a day are lying. They just count in everything that is somehow related to their job, like reading about their business in the newspaper or thinking about work in the shower. And that's the crux of the matter, in jobs that don't have clearly assigned shifts or where attendance is measured, the boundaries between work and leisure become blurred. And then again, comparison…

Almost anyone that brags to others about how many hours they work typically count checking their emails while watching TV as work.

That is working though.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#154
post #43

Valuable prospective, but (as is the gist of half my comments here): People are even more different than you think. RescueTime wrote a similar post, but +100 data: https://rescuetime.wpengine.com/work-life-balance-study-2019... Look at the second histogram. The average is roughly aligned with OP’s summary, but there is huge variance. These comments have already devolved into people telling each other they are lying,…

Another study here that uses an estimate for productivity. https://ftp.iza.org/dp8129.pdf His models show peak productivity between 5 and 6 hours a day. In my own experience, I have found productivity more related to sleep and exercise than anything else. Getting 7 hours good sleep (which means winding down for at least 30 minutes before sleep, a stretching exercise or meditation), and enough exercise every day to ge…

Could you share some details about that defect metric and how you implemented it? Sounds interesting.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#155
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perspective from the management side at a consulting place: We don't want or need you to log your time to the minute. It's counter-productive and a waste of time. It needs to just be representative and not dishonest (please read that sentence twice). An hour long meeting booked, that ended up taking 45mins? It's an hour. It's the same reason we don't expect you to stop recording time when you to down the hall to make…

My experience with timesheets is that they must add up to the hours you're paid for (full-time salaried work, not hourly consulting). That more-or-less guarantees that timesheets are made-up. My first salaried job was as a salesman; we incurred expenses, which we could claim back. It was explained to us that the system was there to ensure that we weren't out-of-pocket; claims didn't have to actually be true , but you…

8 hours of sleep can undo less than 4 hours of problem-solving activity. Our large brains are already consuming too much body resources.

I have CO2 monitor, which I use to estimate is my brain working or not: when I'm working, CO2 level raises quickly above 1000ppm, so I need to ventilate my room often; when I'm idling, e.g. by playing a simple game, CO2 level is at about 740-790ppm without ventilation for whole day.

When I'm returning from work, I see at CO2 monitor that my head is still working. Yes, I'm able to «work» sustainable 4h per day only, but «work related activity» consumes my brain for whole day.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#156

The article resonated with my experience as as software developer. At my first place, a small outsourcing shop, employees were required to log daily activities so hours per day roughly fit to 8 and 40 per week. From the beginning and unlike most of coworkers, I measured my time precisely with https://github.com/Klaster1/timer-5 and soon understood that doing 8 hours per day doesn't happen much and often involves stay…

What happens if you have a peer that clocks 14 hours per day and work weekends too, for some reason? At our place they started comparing everyone to him. I work like at half his total speed. He often break things or have to redo things or are late to standup and don't really partake in conversations. We've all asked him to slow down and not burn out but he keeps going.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#157
The author's analysis is so entirely subjective as to what constitutes "work" as to be meaningless. I certainly believe that most creative workers cannot spend 8 hours a day being creatively productive, although even there the variation is enormous. I used to observe a factor of 5 or more difference in productivity between the most productive and least productive of my engineering team, and a lot of that was due to the ability of some to stay focused and fully absorbed in creation for hour after hour, whereas the average engineer simply stopped producing much after a couple of hours. Interestingly, a lot of this was attention span limited. Take the person who was good for 2 hours of productive coding on a product, and give them two significantly separate areas of responsibility, and their productivity would close to double, as they could pull off a mid-day switch and be fully energized for a second shift at the creative keyboard.

But just because you're not doing the highest value / highest drain portion of your job constantly, doesn't mean you're not working. Good managers know to balance workload and expectations.

And as others have noted, this varies enormously from one profession to the next. The nurses in the hospital where I worked as CTO worked 12 hour shifts, and nobody in their right mind would make the argument that they weren't working the entire time. Most worked three 12 hours shifts per week, so they had a short work week, but the doctors they worked with routinely worked 12 hrs/day, often 5 days per week, and then spent part of their 2 "off" days working as well. My daughter-in-law, who teaches elementary school, has no "own time" between 8:00 AM and 4:00PM, other than a half hour break when her students are at lunch, and then works a couple of hours most evenings in addition. It's a rare week during the school year when she doesn't have 45 hours per week in which she is completely "owned" be the job - which is to say, working.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#158

I’ve been reading some variant of this, for many years. One of the reasons that I hated being a manager, was because the job involved a lot of sitting around, waiting for stuff to happen. I couldn’t work on my own projects (because I was on paid work time), and it would have been irresponsible, in the extreme, to put myself into the critical path (because it was no guarantee that I would be able to reliably work). I…

As a manager, I quickly realized that trying to be a technical contributor was a subtle and insidious form of micromanagement. Also, I could give myself my pick of the coolest tasks, which was unfair.

Each hour put in as a manager is many times the return of you as an IC (for better or worse). As technical work is an endless pit of time, it’s very difficult to be a hands on manager that’s effective.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you feel that making direct technical contributions was micromanagement?

Not the person you replied to, but it's because manager's will never truly fit into a project. Most people don't want to go against the manager, or question decisions made by the manager. Even if the manager specifically says "Hey everyone, give me some feedback. Be open and honest" - That's a trap. No one will ever actually do that, because if you bruise your manager's ego, they have the power to make your life a li…

I've been a hands on contributor and manager for long time. I do three things that seem to make this a lot more functional:

1) I pick what I'm going to work on after the rest of the team picks their tickets.

2) I fix one bug per day, not matter what.

3) HIPPO (HIghest Paid Person's Opinion) is not an acceptable reason to make a decision.

It's worked well for me, your milage may vary.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#160

The article resonated with my experience as as software developer. At my first place, a small outsourcing shop, employees were required to log daily activities so hours per day roughly fit to 8 and 40 per week. From the beginning and unlike most of coworkers, I measured my time precisely with https://github.com/Klaster1/timer-5 and soon understood that doing 8 hours per day doesn't happen much and often involves stay…

What happens if you have a peer that clocks 14 hours per day and work weekends too, for some reason? At our place they started comparing everyone to him. I work like at half his total speed. He often break things or have to redo things or are late to standup and don't really partake in conversations. We've all asked him to slow down and not burn out but he keeps going.

Speaking as a manager, I’d flag this dev as a concern. Very few people can work at this rate without one (or more) of three scenarios playing out:

1. They burn out and clock out mentally or leave altogether

2. They develop psychological issues and destroy their personal life, leading to an unbalanced and unsustainable situation

3. They expect something from the org in return, which normally the org can’t/won’t match (either in the way of product ownership or compensation or role).

Someone like that needs to be constrained. Keep them on the edge and eager to contribute but don’t let them free reign. If the situation and culture allow, try help out to fill the void in their personal life (I ordered one of our guys to leave early twice a week to spend time with his girlfriend because I knew his dedication to work is destroying his relationship. I sent couple of others to weekends in hotels with their SO after long sprints).

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