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Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

reuters.com

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Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very childish rant. You could swap Ohio, with Missouri, Indiana, Iowa... All country have states/provinces that are more developed than others. You liking your home state (or not) doesn't make it better. You can say whatever you want, good luck getting people to move to Ohio.

People used to say that about Idaho, now it’s half Californians. Maine was a backwater now it’s got some of the biggest population growth metros in the country. Florida used to be swamps now it’s growing like crazy. Things change, man. In fact the numbers show people are leaving California.

> People used to say that about Idaho, now it’s half Californians.

Idaho has always been half Californians. Now we just have Californians who moved there 50 years ago complaining about Californians who moved there 5 years ago. It is like that in most western states.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#642
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1032019.Bad_Samaritans This is a good book that goes through how economies develop and the role of State Owned/sponsored Enterprises are helpful in developing a nation's technology competencies. The author uses South Korea as a few of his examples, too.

Thanks for the recommendation! You mention that it uses South Korea, does it talk about Shipbuilding? The United States used to be a global ship building giant, but after Regan unilaterally reduced subsidies, it got completely crushed by state subsidized Japanese, Korean, and now Chinese shipbuilders. It's gotten so bad that it's a real national security risk in terms of industrial capability.

I believe it does mention Hyundai, but more about cars. It goes more in depth with aerospace, mentioning America/France and even Indonesia.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#643
post #70

its a shame we didn't see this type of investment after the rust belt area crashed in 2008. if we had more domestic chip plants, we probably wouldn't be in the current chip shortage rn chip fab/manufacturing process probably doesn't generate as many jobs as the auto industry (the process is automated heavily from what I have seen) at its peak but at least they will be very high paying.

Fab is still considered high-risk. It made sense to MBAs that why build your own fab when you can outsource it to someone who is willing to sink all that money and does it well for reasonable price.

Until supply chain got choked.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true if you’re talking about, like, Burger King or something. But even places that treat their workers well are even having problems. Not everything is black and white.

Can you give some examples? From what I see, most of the lack of supply is at the unskilled level.

Where I live—the Seattle area—it appears most or many places are having staffing issues. From basic grocery stores to higher-end New Seasons/Metropolitan Market type stores, for example. Same with restaurants. Heck, it’s even difficult to hire software engineers right now.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon fabs do not make server boards. They just produce the silicon wafer i.e. "die" of a semiconductor device. Most die must be assembled into a package before they can be used. The die packaging aka "backend" is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Most backend is in Taiwan or Malaysia or China. Even after the die is packaged, it needs to be mounted on a complete PCB with all the other components. Inte…

> The die packaging is almost never done at the same place as the fab. Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there. > needs to be mounted on a complete PCB Intel sells lots of CPUs that are…

> Are you sure? TSMC definitely does packaging. And it seems like it would be crazy to ship a delicate unpackaged die to a different factory when you could just keep it in a clean room and do everything in one place. I think it would be mad for Intel not to do packaging there.

True, the very advanced packaging techniques, such as TSMC CoWoS or Intel EMIB, are done at the fabs by those companies. These packages are for very high performance multi-chip interconnects. In both cases, the "package" itself actually is partially constructed from silicon, so we are kind of blurring the lines between what is "chip" and what is "package". The vast majority of chips do not use packages anywhere near this advanced and are not done at fabs.

Also, it's not crazy to ship finished wafers (i.e. "unpackaged die"); it's standard practice. Once the final process steps are complete in the fab, the chip is not as sensitive to fine particles any more. The wafers get loaded into cassettes then vacuum-sealed in anti-static bags. They ship out to the backend assembly sites just fine. In fact, globally, there are probably ~100,000 wafers shipped like this every day.

> Intel sells lots of CPUs that aren't soldered to PCBs.

True. But if you are buying an LGA socketed Intel CPU, the silicon die had to first be mounted on a substrate and the heatspreader attached. That wasn't done at fab, it was done at backend assembly. Ever notice that Intel CPU's often say something about "assembled in Malaysia" on top? That's because it was assembled in Malaysia. Intel does not have any semiconductor fabs in Malaysia, meaning, they fabbed it in one place and assembled it in another.

If you are a company like Dell or HP and you are buying the laptop BGA CPUs, Intel still had to assemble those into the BGA package before shipping to Dell/HP. And the BGA package assembly also is not done at fab.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS lists their old hardware on ebay? through official accounts or what?

Nah not official - it ends up at various resellers. Not sure what they do directly with it. Getting in on THAT would likely be a very good deal!

It's interesting to watch what Amazon runs directly versus what they contract. IIRC they own trailers but contract the semis to pull them. At one point, they actually considered buying an RV park for their seasonal warehouse employees. I wonder why they don't directly sell their surplus like the government does at gsaauctions.gov.

Re: Intel's $20B Ohio factory could become world's largest chip plant

#647
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also, resiliency against adverse action in the Senate. they now have 4 senators who are unlikely to vote on anything damaging to Intel

That's similar to the method defense contractors use, they spread out their manufacturing locations to have influence over as many politicians as possible.

I'm a space nerd and the geographic distribution of the Apollo contractors was downright impressive. They built major systems from New York to California.
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