The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#551

Post by ajford » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #395

gglitch wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exhausting. And the piano policy in the example is totally absurd. I hope my remarks didn't come across as personal. I have kids in school too, and although I'm currently favoring masks, I'm also miserable about how my kids' early childhood social and academic development have been impacted.

Why do kids even need masks? Like, they aren’t at risk… this is a known fact since like March of 2020. Why force kids to wear them? Who are they supposed to be protecting? Fully vaccinated teachers? Who?

Kids are less at risk. That doesn't mean they aren't at risk. They can, and do, still catch Covid, even if they are less likely to suffer severe hospitalization.

On top of that, if they end up with long-covid or some other long-term complication from the Covid infection, they're quality of life is impacted for a far longer time. Some known long-covid complications include things like (potentially) permanent loss of smell or taste, reduced mental faculties, and organ damage. Would you sentence a child to a lifetime of being unable to taste their food for the rest of their lives just so they don't have to wear a mask for a tiny portion of their lives?

Also, adults seem to hate masks, but plenty of kids don't feel the same way. My oldest loves to accent his outfits with his cloth masks, and wears them over surgical or N95 masks now.

Who are they protecting? They're protecting each other and everyone around them. That could be a teacher who could catch a breakthrough case, a sibling or family member, and anyone they might come into close contact with. That also cascades. That vaccinated teacher who may have caught a break through case might infect their family causing a small outbreak in their home.

By wearing a mask, they're reducing risk, even if it might be a small amount. Those few percentage points could mean the difference between life and death for someone in their contact circle.

Re: The case against masks at school

#552

Post by colpabar » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

reanimus wrote: post #524

endisneigh wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody here is advocating for avoiding vaccinations so your entire point is moot.

I think if we're supposed to treat the position against vaccination being effective as "not stupid", we ought to hear reasons why that is.

My point is that if you insinuate that anyone who holds that position is stupid through sarcasm and snarky comments, you are never going to hear those reasons, because no one will want to engage with you.

Re: The case against masks at school

#553

Post by AussieWog93 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

sometimeshuman wrote: post #494

AlexandrB wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it a vibe. I only see a steady decline in living standards in our future and it makes me pause when I think about whether to subject another human being (i.e. my kids) to that.

There is no stigma these days for not starting a family kids and men can privately retreat into video games and pornography. When confronted about their selfish* lifestyle the above comment is convenient cover but it is not backed by solid data. I'd take birth in this past decade over birth in my decade any day. *I'd argue that not having at least one child and possibly adopting others is selfish assuming one has fin…

May I ask how old you are?

From where I am, a "selfish" lifestyle of video games and porn replacing responsibility does not seem to be healthy long-term.

I'm in my late 20s now, and the guys I know who are not working towards getting married and starting a family are pretty much all starting to experience some sort of constant existential anxiety.

Re: The case against masks at school

#554

Post by AzzieElbab » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

smhenderson wrote: post #348

Hokusai wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And re…

In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?

Yes. Down with with the Big Apparel

Re: The case against masks at school

#555

Post by kodah » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #304

General observation from reading the comments - the folks on HN must not have many friends working in medicine for if they had they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out. They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. Surgeries are continuing to be postponed - including surgeries that can lead to worse problems down the road such as removing cancerous tumors. And i…

> You can see what our child-bearing aged children think of all this - they're not having kids. I don't think this is a short-term aberration. We're a population literally in decline.

I'm one of these folks. I think it's wrong to blame this solely on COVID. I won't have kids because my position in the United States is nowhere near guaranteed. I have survived three economic recessions, one of which I lost everything in and the course of my life was permanently altered. I watched as society adopted "the internet" and used it in terrifying detail. I've watched as social problems turned into vitriol, anger, and at times violence. I've watched as climate change was viewed as either "conserve", "don't believe", or "innovate" with the latter being the latest focus - none of which have worked and each took myopic approaches to a very broad problem. I've watched as society became polarized on such arbitrary lines as politics, missing any nuance that may occur across the spectrum; almost turned into a caricature of Star Wars. Home prices are higher than they've ever been, inaccessible to even moderately wealthy citizens.

I may not be on the money with each of my perspectives, though I also don't think I'm really that far off. So riddle me this: Why in the hell would I want to add one more responsibility while dodging and dealing with the bullets of life as-we-know-it today?

Re: The case against masks at school

#556

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:38 PM UTC

perardi wrote: post #417

dsl wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know multiple households where the initial infection vector was the kids. Grandpa might be stupid and refuse the vaccine, but keeping little Billy from becoming a carrier lessens the hospital load. If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning, we need to mask test and vaccinate in the schools.

Or…grandpa can get vaccinated. I'd be more than happy to test and vaccinate in schools. In particular vaccinate. But having kids wear masks…which they don't do well, because they're kids…not like adults do it well either…is a fig leaf. It's not going to work. And you can see that from the massive infection rates in schools that have masks .

Is there a massive infection rate? My kid’s elementary school sends an email with the count of positive test results in the school each week. It seems like it’s consistently under 1% per week. (Typically 1-4 people testing positive in a city K-5 school, students and staff being tested.)

Re: The case against masks at school

#557

Post by hammock » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #298

hammock wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you are on a path to awakening so I don't want to discourage you, but it might be worth sharing additional data and context to parts of your comment. >With vaccine intake high in most developed countries a covid infection is like a cold or a bad flu for some. That may be more driven by the mildness of Omicron than it is by the protective effect of the vaccine. For example, the latest data show that vaccin…

> One source (14 per 100k vs 10 per 100k): Please do not cherry-pick data that has hidden confounding variables. The data DOES NOT SHOW that vaccinated (but not boosted) are getting sick and dying at higher rates than unvaccinated. You are being severely misleading with your statements as “facts”. Most importantly “In the last week from 08 January 2022 to 14 January 2022, in an age-standardised population, the COVID-…

>Most importantly “In the last week from 08 January 2022 to 14 January 2022, in an age-standardised population, the COVID-19 related death rate in individuals that received a booster or third dose of a COVID-19 vaccine was between 3.2 to 9.4 times lower than individuals who are unvaccinated or have only received one or two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine.”. That directly contradicts your “fact”,

It does? You pulled a quote that compares boosted vs unvaccinated/one/two doses, and that is not the comparison I was making. It's possible that I'm misinterpreting the data, but you didn't show it right there.

Re: The case against masks at school

#558

Post by katbyte » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

stvswn wrote: post #519

dsl wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know multiple households where the initial infection vector was the kids. Grandpa might be stupid and refuse the vaccine, but keeping little Billy from becoming a carrier lessens the hospital load. If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning, we need to mask test and vaccinate in the schools.

You somehow manage to be condescending against all parties here. Calling mothers who want their children to receive an in-person education "screaming Karens" is terribly out of touch. I have young children, and my position is simple: the hospital load, the vaccination status of the elderly, the burn out of the teachers -- it's not my child's burden. It's the adults' burden. You are free to wear a mask for the rest of…

Maybe take your kids out of public school then? Your kids are not the only ones there and don’t take priority over everyone else’s (and the teaches)

Re: The case against masks at school

#559

Post by aidenn0 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

fifteenforty wrote: post #127

aidenn0 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She switched from cloth to paper and it did improve things somewhat; I think a lot of the effect is that it seals less on the side though, so the results of them requiring masks outside is that my daughter is wearing a less effective mask inside.

Have you tried her in an N95?

I've worn those during fire season; I feel like any benefit from breathing would be erased by how uncomfortable they are on the face.

Re: The case against masks at school

#560

Post by nradov » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:41 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #536

nradov wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shortage of physicians is primarily caused not by regulations but by lack of government funding for residency programs. https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-fun...

So we didn’t have physicians before government started funding residencies? I think not, I think we used to have physicians just fine 100 years ago. So what changed?

Medical education with residencies only really started in about 1930. Before that there was no real consistency, and the results were terrible in terms of iatrogenic harm.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001936.htm

The other thing that changed in the past 100 years is that Americans on average are older, sicker, and have higher demand for healthcare.