The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#541

Post by gkbrk » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

tqi wrote: post #512

dsl wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know multiple households where the initial infection vector was the kids. Grandpa might be stupid and refuse the vaccine, but keeping little Billy from becoming a carrier lessens the hospital load. If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning, we need to mask test and vaccinate in the schools.

1. If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. 2. The idea that anyone who wants in person learning is a "screaming Karen" is fucking stupid. There is lots of evidence that remote learning has all kinds of negative outcomes for kids, and your (frankly sexist) dismissiveness is the reason this conversation never goes anywhere.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem.

Sure thing. Can we get the Grandpa's to sign documents saying they're going unvaccinated by choice and would like to opt-out from any hospital care related to COVID if their resources are needed for any other patient?

Re: The case against masks at school

#542

Post by sleepybrett » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

xigoi wrote: post #260

jasonlotito wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For two years we’ve been asked to park our problems and to act like literally all that matters is the spread of Covid. The problem is only half the population really followed through. These measures are still needed more because half the population effectively thinks COVID is no big deal or a hoax.

Many of the restrictions were mandatory, so all people had to follow through…

My parents live in a moderately rural area outside of seattle, i live in seattle. The end of very first week of the lockdown my parents were able to acquire or had already had a few items I could not find in stores in the city. Primarily toilet paper, but a few other items as well.

So I drove over to their place and they leant me some stuff, we were all paranoid so they left the stuff in the garage, I drove up, waved to them on the porch and loaded up my car and headed home. I did need to stop and get gas before getting back on the freeway, at the gas station there was a little mini-mart. There were four people inside, none of them had a mask on. The gas station is next to a Denny's or similar, their dining room was closed but there were people waiting INSIDE and UNMASKED for takeout.

That's why we can't have nice things, even if your town/city collectively was pretty serious about lockdown, the next town over might not be and their citizens are coming into your community to work or whatever else. The only enforcement is the local sherif and if they are a crazy gimme liberty or gimme death type they aren't going to enforce shit.

Re: The case against masks at school

#543

Post by pcmoney » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #525

pcmoney wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus is endemic, we are all going to get it sooner or later.

No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.

It is endemic. Its everywhere. Its mutating.

Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio)

We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be mandated (although I would encourage it)

Mask are of marginal help. Mandates dont change actual behavior.

Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x)

Re: The case against masks at school

#544

Post by gherkinnn » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

sleepybrett wrote: post #499

pcmoney wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an open air room, the difference between walking past and sitting in the same room as is negligible. Total theatre, does nothing besides allowing restaurants and patrons to feel ok/that they are “doing something” and stay open.

Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.

No. At some point you've got to ask if these measures are worth living for. It's winter in the northern hemisphere. It'd dark and it's cold.

Keeping people locked up at home for a third season is absurd.

Re: The case against masks at school

#545

Post by wallacoloo » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #514

colpabar wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone , or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are va…

> You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? > In my opinion, that…

> It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so why maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead?

and you think this is an experience unique to your viewpoint? do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant?

if you find yourself in an us-vs-them mindset and decide to ditch empathy, all you do is widen the divide.

Re: The case against masks at school

#546

Post by pcmoney » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:32 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #525

pcmoney wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus is endemic, we are all going to get it sooner or later.

No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.

If you don’t want to contract it feel free to make whatever personal decisions you think will prevent it.

Don’t use your fear to control others and prevent them from making their own decisions.

Re: The case against masks at school

#547

Post by tqi » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

aqme28 wrote: post #534

tqi wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. 2. The idea that anyone who wants in person learning is a "screaming Karen" is fucking stupid. There is lots of evidence that remote learning has all kinds of negative outcomes for kids, and your (frankly sexist) dismissiveness is the reason this conversation never goes anywhere.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. Unfortunately though that's not true. It's putting a huge burden on hospitals that affects us all.

True, but thats a % of a % of a % (ie Masks could prevent some % of COVID transmission at school, of some % of which would have be transmitted to other individuals in the home, of which some % of which would have required hospitalization), which makes it seem likely to be a high cost for not much reward.

Re: The case against masks at school

#548

Post by stvswn » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #304

General observation from reading the comments - the folks on HN must not have many friends working in medicine for if they had they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out. They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. Surgeries are continuing to be postponed - including surgeries that can lead to worse problems down the road such as removing cancerous tumors. And i…

I find it kind of amazing that the justification for school mask mandates (which was once "keep kids from getting covid") has morphed into "we'll lower the load on hospitals if the kids keep their faces covered."

Can anyone imagine if we went back to 2020 and pitched this to parents? "Look, if your kid gets it, it will be similar in nature to a chest cold. It's somewhat more dangerous for the elderly. In order to keep doctors and nurses from getting burned out, the kids are all going to wear masks all day. Other than that, outside of school, we're all going to be pretty much getting back to normal."

I have lost track of what the goalposts are. I am starting to think that people just like the idea that children are suffering, it must mean that we're taking the whole thing seriously. As long as none of us are inconvenienced, right?

Re: The case against masks at school

#549

Post by a_shovel » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

pcmoney wrote: post #506

sleepybrett wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.

No, Covid is low risk if you are vaccinated and elderly/at risk and extremely low risk if you are younger (vaccinated or not) It’s endemic. Its not going away. We are all going to get it. (Me: triple vaxxed, had covid 2x) Getting vaccinated is a personal heath decision (which I encourage) Time to move on.

This plan would kill a large portion of immunocompromised people worldwide.

Re: The case against masks at school

#550

Post by Closi » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

sleepybrett wrote: post #499

pcmoney wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an open air room, the difference between walking past and sitting in the same room as is negligible. Total theatre, does nothing besides allowing restaurants and patrons to feel ok/that they are “doing something” and stay open.

Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.

> Which is why indoor dining rooms should still be closed. Pretending we aren't living through a pandemic that is respiratory in nature is fucking madness. Maybe if we had locked down harder for longer and treated this thing seriously in the beginning we wouldn't be almost two years into this with no end in sight.

We aren't living through a pandemic anymore, we are now living in an endemic. Omicron isn't going away anytime soon - and we can't lock down businesses forever. Omicron can't be stopped by lockdown anyway (see challenges of containing it within China).

Secondly, it is highly unlikely that we would have got rid of Covid-19 even harsher lockdown measures earlier (e.g. see Omicron which happened because the original virus jumped to mice and back to humans - just humans locking down wouldn't have stopped this variant, we would have had to lock down all the rodents too).

My personal view - we have to stop viewing life as nothing but a vector for disease, and stop re-architecting our entire society and culture to avoid Covid infections (at huge societal costs to education, standards of living etc).