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Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

melanie.io

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Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#61

Post by jfarmer »

astrofinch wrote: post #44
jfarmer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you have to build two successful products: one to acquire customers, and one to sell to them.

You mean one to acquire customers and one to do customer fulfillment. And customer fulfillment is useless if you don't have any customers. This seems obvious.

No, I meant what I said. Why spend time and energy building a huge consumer success if your goal is to sell things?

Name some successful online commerce companies that started that way. Most (I won't say all) started as pure commerce, e.g., Gilt.

If you're ShoeDazzle selling shoes for $40/month, your customer acquisition problem is fundamentally different than a site like Svpply.

If you want to sell things, sell things. Don't try to play 3d chess.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#62

Post by epicviking »

viraptor wrote: post #55
epicviking wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think Indochino is an example of someone focusing too much on the "physical fucking product" and missing some chances to do some real innovative stuff. They could potentially offer some really neat customizations, possibly even a full "internet bespoke tailor experience" kind of thing, but they avoid that in favor of more dumbed down aspirational product that tries to sell itself as something it isn't. As…

I don't really agree. Maybe it's "dumbed down" experience comparing to a private tailor. But at that price range just getting out of the "standardised sizes" and getting details you want is worth it. Kind of like what http://www.tailorstore.co.uk provides. Barely anyone has actually heard about online stores like that. Amazon is the default. Why offer more customisations when people are not really ready for the basic…

I think Indochino would benefit from pushing the customization angle though. As it stands now they are simply offering a product not unlike Banana Republic with a bit more customization in the lining and a bit in the sizing. I think the number of people who want custom suits is a lot higher than you think (not to mention, Indochino's business model is highly dependent on return customers) and aiming more for the market currently only filled by traveling Hong Kong tailors might be in their better interest. I do think they are going in that direction though.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#63

Post by jfarmer »

encoderer wrote: post #54
jfarmer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is different. When buying clothes people ask questions like "Will my girlfriend think I'm sexier?" or "Will the kids at school think I'm cooler?" Fashion is a kind of performance -- people see what you wear, after all -- so there's an inherent social dimension that isn't obviously present like it is with movies on Netflix, which you watch in the privacy of your own home. People, not robots, will win the day when i…

The core of these recommendation algorithms is often a flavor of nearest neighbor analysis. In this case, the computer is using attributes to find people who are similar to you, and then suggest to you things that they liked. All the "robots" do is find people who it thinks you would like to emulate. That sounds like the same thing the fashion industry has been doing for decades.

Robots don't merchandise, that's the problem. For many people decisions about what to wear is very intimate, but algorithms are bloodless.

The who, where, and how matter much more in fashion. Algorithms miss that.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#64

Post by jfarmer »

prof_hobart wrote: post #51
redthrowaway wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What were the alternatives? Requests like that are a huge turn-off for me. Ask me for my email, sure. Ask for the ability to post spam on my wall and I've just closed the tab. It may convert alright, but it also drives away potential customers. Why not give me the option to subscribe by email?

I'm guessing it's because you're likely not their target audience. A lot of people are more than happy to let whoever asks have permission to spam their Facebook feed with free advertising.

We don't spam anyone's Facebook feed, for the record. We will post something if and only if you click "post to Facebook."

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#65

Post by inmygarage »

melanie_io wrote: post #18
kariatx wrote: post #8

"In fashion, trust me, that are MANY problems that need to be solved: a highly antiquated supply chain, non-standard, un-linked computer systems, non-standard sizing that varies even within the same line, inefficient pricing methods." I don't see why internet fashion companies couldn't take a crack at solving / mitigating at least some of these. For example, there are some sites (like zafu.com - no affiliation) that…

I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of…

What are your thoughts on Pinterest? I use it all the time - recent purchases as a result of Pinterest include a bunch of apartment furnishings, an iPhone case, some new t-shirts, etc. And now when I need something I have started using it as a search engine. I do think it has solved the problem of both breadth of options and targeted results.

Disclosure: I am female.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#66

Post by encoderer »

jfarmer wrote: post #63
encoderer wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core of these recommendation algorithms is often a flavor of nearest neighbor analysis. In this case, the computer is using attributes to find people who are similar to you, and then suggest to you things that they liked. All the "robots" do is find people who it thinks you would like to emulate. That sounds like the same thing the fashion industry has been doing for decades.

Robots don't merchandise, that's the problem. For many people decisions about what to wear is very intimate, but algorithms are bloodless. The who, where, and how matter much more in fashion. Algorithms miss that.

I'm not really opposed to what you're saying, but it does seem to me like you dismiss the big human factor in these algorithms. It's not like it's just a system saying "You bought a red dress last year, here is a list of other red dresses you may like" -- Because the quirky frock she bought for work last year doesn't mean she wants to see cocktail dresses that just so happen to be the same color, or from the same designer, or in the same price range.

Instead, it's correlating prototypical woman A to prototypical woman B based on available demographic data and past purchase history, and suggesting to "A" some of the things that "B" purchased. The emotion and intimacy there was the human act of "B" purchasing clothing that she connected with.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#67

Post by rokhayakebe »

inmygarage wrote: post #65
melanie_io wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of…

What are your thoughts on Pinterest? I use it all the time - recent purchases as a result of Pinterest include a bunch of apartment furnishings, an iPhone case, some new t-shirts, etc. And now when I need something I have started using it as a search engine. I do think it has solved the problem of both breadth of options and targeted results. Disclosure: I am female.

Pinterest is one the coolest/simplest site I've discovered this year. I have yet to buy anything straight from it, but I search for styles through it before going out and buying clothes.

If I must. Disclosure: I am a guy.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#68

Post by rokhayakebe »

switch wrote: post #43
rokhayakebe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to give her more credit. She did a fashion startup for a few years. About the 3-8% affiliate fees, that's not a viable business model. You would have to deliver north of 15M dollars to get 1M dollars. Assuming the average ticket is $150, you need 100,000 conversion. The average internet conversion rate is 3%. So you need 3M uniques. That is not very easy to get. Even if you are buying it.

Give her more credit for what? She did a fashion startup for a few years and she never figured out that nearly every luxury company gives 10% to 15% commissions? If she really thinks it's 3 to 8% then she's blissfuly ignorant. She doesn't get the fundamental concept of capturing the starting point. If a site becomes the destination for fashion i.e. where people go to search for the next thing they buy. Then that site…

Do you have an example of a site that started as an affiliate and ended up creating its own products? I think this is would be very very difficult.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#70

Post by sliverstorm »

switch wrote: post #42
sliverstorm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For criticizing her article for not being "well thought-out", you sure didn't write a well thought-out reply. I don't see how your reply actually disproves anything she said; you've basically just said, "no, she's wrong... because she is wrong."

No she is wrong because of this: c) If you become the decision engine (something Google and Bing are trying to do with their Flight Search and other initiatives in various verticals), then you can easily take over the entire business. If people are coming to you and you help them decide what to buy - then you can start selling them that stuff. * If you become the decision engine for Fashion you can decide everything…

Amazon and WalMart are not decision engines, and they never were. Maybe Amazon had a little of that on the side, but both are traditional retailers with all the traditionally hard problems the article mentioned that people don't want to solve.

In fact, Amazon is a poster-child example of what you stand to gain if you are willing to tackle more than just being a frontend.

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