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Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

melanie.io

51–60 of 95 posts

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#51
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've tested the page, and this converts no worse than the alternatives.

What were the alternatives? Requests like that are a huge turn-off for me. Ask me for my email, sure. Ask for the ability to post spam on my wall and I've just closed the tab. It may convert alright, but it also drives away potential customers. Why not give me the option to subscribe by email?

I'm guessing it's because you're likely not their target audience. A lot of people are more than happy to let whoever asks have permission to spam their Facebook feed with free advertising.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#52
post #2

> My guess is that the “back-end” supply chain / software / inventory management problems are just not as sexy as the “front-end” consumer-facing problems, or maybe the consumer-facing problems are just more intuitive. Absolutely! I wrote MRP systems for a pharma manufacturing in Florida and the kind of stuff I had to do on a daily basis far surpassed the complexity of your breathtakingly-beautiful but typical projec…

Working on a project like that sounds like a lot of fun. I guess there must not be very much money in it though because every company requires custom software, eh?

There is actually a huge amount of money in that space - think Oracle, SAP and many others.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of…

> To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowd-sourcing or algorithms is untenable. For now maybe. Ten years ago if you asked me if I'd spend 2 hours watching a movie because a computer said so, I'd laugh. Netflix recommendations, while not perfect, are still very good. Had I not told Netflix that I loved District 9, it would not have suggested Torchwood: Children of Earth to me. H…

Whether it's a friend or an impersonal algorithm making the recommendation, you're still watching the same trailer before deciding to purchase a film. On the other hand, no amount of precise algorithmic matching of tastes and sizes can substitute for feeling the softness of the fabric and being reassured by your reflection that your bum doesn't look big in it before you buy. The costs involved are quite different too...

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#54
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowd-sourcing or algorithms is untenable. For now maybe. Ten years ago if you asked me if I'd spend 2 hours watching a movie because a computer said so, I'd laugh. Netflix recommendations, while not perfect, are still very good. Had I not told Netflix that I loved District 9, it would not have suggested Torchwood: Children of Earth to me. H…

It is different. When buying clothes people ask questions like "Will my girlfriend think I'm sexier?" or "Will the kids at school think I'm cooler?" Fashion is a kind of performance -- people see what you wear, after all -- so there's an inherent social dimension that isn't obviously present like it is with movies on Netflix, which you watch in the privacy of your own home. People, not robots, will win the day when i…

The core of these recommendation algorithms is often a flavor of nearest neighbor analysis. In this case, the computer is using attributes to find people who are similar to you, and then suggest to you things that they liked.

All the "robots" do is find people who it thinks you would like to emulate. That sounds like the same thing the fashion industry has been doing for decades.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#55

The best example of a fashion startup I've seen is Indochino (www.indochino.com). They were faced with many of these issues and have gone and taken full control of their end to end supply chain. They are selling "physical fucking product" but they are making it more personalized and custom tailored (pardon the pun), direct to the customer. I don't have much need for wearing a suit these days, but the moment I do, the…

I actually think Indochino is an example of someone focusing too much on the "physical fucking product" and missing some chances to do some real innovative stuff. They could potentially offer some really neat customizations, possibly even a full "internet bespoke tailor experience" kind of thing, but they avoid that in favor of more dumbed down aspirational product that tries to sell itself as something it isn't. As…

I don't really agree. Maybe it's "dumbed down" experience comparing to a private tailor. But at that price range just getting out of the "standardised sizes" and getting details you want is worth it. Kind of like what http://www.tailorstore.co.uk provides. Barely anyone has actually heard about online stores like that. Amazon is the default. Why offer more customisations when people are not really ready for the basic customised experience?

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#56
Take, for example, a traditional retailer such as Opening Ceremony. After shipping, merchant fees, packaging, and COGS, they produce an average gross margin around 40% (the industry standard) – after accounting for photography expenses (which most affiliate sites do not have), let’s say the margin is around 30%. Whereas a fashion site that generates revenue mainly from affiliate fees will collect only 3-8% of the revenue on each sale. That means that the new, lightweight fashion site must sell 4x-10x more inventory than Opening Ceremony in order to produce similar profit margins. On the hierarchy of risk, figuring out a way to sell 10x more than your competitor in order to just stay in the game is a much larger risk than the inventory management issues of a traditional retailer.

We're seriously comparing B+M company with gross margins of 30% to a lean startup receiving affiliate fees of (let's take the worst case, even) 3% on a product and suggesting that the affiliate has to sell 10x as much "in order to stay in the game"?

Plain and simple, you cannot compare these numbers, they have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

That 3% affiliate fee is as close to pure, unadulterated gravy as you can get in business - it's profit practically from day one, regardless of volume. It's probably being chopped up between three dudes working out of a garage somewhere, whose entire set of business expenses comes down to some electricity, a few meals a day, and a $0.34 / hour large EC2 instance. If their volume went up by a factor of 10, then maybe they'd need to add another few servers (each of which is probably making them thousands of dollars per hour, if it's pegged).

With affiliate marketing, if you've got high volume, your margin approaches 100%, since your expenses are pretty much independent of your sales (unless you're reliant on advertising, which to be fair is another matter altogether) - would it then make sense to say that traditional retailers need to sell 3x as much product to stay above water? No, because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Now, if you wanted to claim that in order to have similar total profits to the traditional retailer the startup would have to move 10x as much product, we can start talking. But the point is, they don't need as much profit to compensate everyone involved at the same level - that traditional retailer probably has at least 10x as many people employed per unit sold as the startup does, and the startup's advantage there scales much better with increasing volume.

It certainly may be the case that pure-online fashion sites are fundamentally doomed to fail for some reason, but if so, the article offers no real evidence. All we've seen is an argument that would also imply that Amazon, Netflix, iTunes, and most other online product sales businesses should fail, because they all have much smaller profit-per-unit figures than traditional brick and mortars.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#57
post #8

"In fashion, trust me, that are MANY problems that need to be solved: a highly antiquated supply chain, non-standard, un-linked computer systems, non-standard sizing that varies even within the same line, inefficient pricing methods." I don't see why internet fashion companies couldn't take a crack at solving / mitigating at least some of these. For example, there are some sites (like zafu.com - no affiliation) that…

I was actually discussing this very point with a good friend of mine who also runs a fashion startup the other day. To refine what I said: it's not that discoverability is not a problem, it's that all of the new fashion apps (from Lyst to Fashism to Inporia to Svpply to Google Boutiques) seem to have only increased the "noise" versus decrease it. In fashion, customers pay for the edit: a small, curated collection of…

I totally agree about the increased noise making discoverability worse. In fact, I have spent very little time on any of the new sites we're talking about just due to sheer exhaustion from market oversaturation. And that's crazy, because I'm probably their ideal customer.They definitely aren't reaching me, and they should be.

I tend to agree with you about curation versus AI, but I am not 100% sure. Years ago I was skeptical that collaborative filtering would ever work at all. As the poster below notes, it does pretty well for Netflix and sometimes for Amazon too. I could at least imagine some sort of AI recommendation system working for the masses, but I doubt it would ever appeal to the highest end customers.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#58
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To argue that we can somehow replace this very right-brained activity with crowd-sourcing or algorithms is untenable. For now maybe. Ten years ago if you asked me if I'd spend 2 hours watching a movie because a computer said so, I'd laugh. Netflix recommendations, while not perfect, are still very good. Had I not told Netflix that I loved District 9, it would not have suggested Torchwood: Children of Earth to me. H…

Whether it's a friend or an impersonal algorithm making the recommendation, you're still watching the same trailer before deciding to purchase a film. On the other hand, no amount of precise algorithmic matching of tastes and sizes can substitute for feeling the softness of the fabric and being reassured by your reflection that your bum doesn't look big in it before you buy. The costs involved are quite different too…

I suspect the simple solution to that is to have low cost models in a range of sizes try on each item. Let's say it costs 100$ a per size * 10 sizes = 100$ per item in your catalog * 10,000 items in the catalog = 10 million. Which is within the range of a well funded start-up. So it adds 1k/item and some lead time it's also a huge barrier to entry and probably well worth it.

PS: Don't forget Zappos sells shoes online where fit is both harder to come by and more important.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working on a project like that sounds like a lot of fun. I guess there must not be very much money in it though because every company requires custom software, eh?

There is actually a huge amount of money in that space - think Oracle, SAP and many others.

*If you're good at direct enterprise sales... Most startup guys I know prefer PR, metrics, A/B testing, etc. over this type of meat and potatoes type of work.

Re: Building a Fashion Company on the Internet? Stop. Just stop.

#60
post #40
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems I'm completely out of the loop, having heard of none of these except for Gilt. Thank you.

I forgot Trunk Club http://allthingsd.com/20110908/trunk-club-raises-11-million-...

That article is just incredible. $11MM raised, assuming 25% dilution, giving them a ~$44MM valuation on only $1MM in revenue?

I had not the faintest idea there was a huge valuation bubble in my own industry. I am a little bit shocked.

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