201–210 of 1001 posts
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"When science mixes with politics, what you mostly get is politics."
This is an amazing quotation and now I'm reading about John Barry, so thanks for posting it.
"when you mix science and politics, you get politics" -- John Barry
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The chance of a child dying from coronavirus is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.
It's only infinitesimal due to all of the precautions being taken. Remove those precautions, and more children will die. Also pretty great, you're cool with a couple dozen kids dying because otherwise some kids might be mildly inconvenienced by wearing a mask. The discomfort is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.
My kids attend a university in Canada and live in residence on campus. They have had incredibly strict rules around masking and gatherings. It's clear that they are only considering one variable - number of infections - and it seems like they aren't considering any other factors. For example, in the dorm there is a common area with a piano. Because of COVID, playing that piano is banned. Even if there was a reasonabl…
This is the fundamental issue with coronavirus mitigation measures. There are circumstances in which "drop everything" makes sense - if coronavirus were ten times more fatal, we'd do it naturally. But in general, looking at life from a perspective of "what is the minimum possible quality of life we can have" is depressing and fundamentally incompatible with the human spirit. I tend to think that people who operate in…
But I'd also like to downvote you for the this comment: "I tend to think that people who operate in this way are subhuman, in the genuine sense of the word" >> It's not right, not useful, and not reflective. Much better is to assume others are also smart, well-educated and well-intentioned, and then try to genuinely understand why they believe or act the way they do.
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What? Do masks reduce infection rates? If yes, mandates work. If no, mandates don’t. Spoiler: they do. [0] This is pants-on-head stupid, and has nothing at all to do with politics. Mandates increase adoption rates of measures that are proven to help, and trying to manipulate the situation to say otherwise is the problem, not the mandate. Anyone opposing masking in schools at this point is literally choosing to risk k…
If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?
I live somewhere with mild winters so the schools don't have any hallways (the classrooms just open to the outside). This meant that kids could at least get a break from masking between classes. However, after coming back from winter break, the schools started mandating masks outside as well as in, and including during PE class. As you can imagine, my asthmatic daughter was not pleased.
> after coming back from winter break, the schools started mandating masks outside as well as in While the effectiveness of masks at schools indoors is questionable, is there any evidence at all for using, let alone mandating masks outside? I would have thought that the sheer volume and circulation of fresh air should dilute viral particles below the infectious concentration. What are they protecting against: direct…
You'd be surprised how often this happens at an elementary school!
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[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…
I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or,…
> I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small.
This is the key point. The change in airflow and oxygen is extremely small. None of that means your mental state does not change when wearing a mask, but it is probably useful to understand that this is not due to a physiological process involving less oxygen/air.
[ EDIT: one possible answer is change in the CO2 conditions and/or thermal conditions: e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450908/ ]
[ EDIT 2: I was wrong. Please see original comment + edit at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30104420 ]
My kids attend a university in Canada and live in residence on campus. They have had incredibly strict rules around masking and gatherings. It's clear that they are only considering one variable - number of infections - and it seems like they aren't considering any other factors. For example, in the dorm there is a common area with a piano. Because of COVID, playing that piano is banned. Even if there was a reasonabl…
This is the fundamental issue with coronavirus mitigation measures. There are circumstances in which "drop everything" makes sense - if coronavirus were ten times more fatal, we'd do it naturally. But in general, looking at life from a perspective of "what is the minimum possible quality of life we can have" is depressing and fundamentally incompatible with the human spirit. I tend to think that people who operate in…
Honestly, I don't think it's as extreme as "if coronavirus were ten times more fatal" that would lead us to naturally take on mitigations. Instead, it would be if the death rate were evenly spread across age groups. Then, the motivation for avoiding some piano playing would be the immediate cost to self or close friends, rather than the abstract cost to some other group.
All that said I am quite sympathetic to the motivation behind your argument, but I believe you and GP are ignoring some motivations people might have for following or being 'bureaucratic automatons'.
My kids attend a university in Canada and live in residence on campus. They have had incredibly strict rules around masking and gatherings. It's clear that they are only considering one variable - number of infections - and it seems like they aren't considering any other factors. For example, in the dorm there is a common area with a piano. Because of COVID, playing that piano is banned. Even if there was a reasonabl…
When people play music, they sing. Singing in a crowded room isn't really a good idea when there is an infectious visus around.
But you are right - singing would increase the risk of infection. Still, I think the risks from the current version of the virus to a vaccinated group of young people (who are still required to wear masks!) is small enough that the piano should be available.
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It's only infinitesimal due to all of the precautions being taken. Remove those precautions, and more children will die. Also pretty great, you're cool with a couple dozen kids dying because otherwise some kids might be mildly inconvenienced by wearing a mask. The discomfort is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.
I've been pro-masking-in-schools for other reasons (including the practical reality that many schools would have had to shut down without it, since many teachers would have just quit—I know a lot of teachers, and whether you think it's right or wrong, that was going to happen, last school year especially, if precautions like masking, distancing, and long quarantine periods hadn't been enforced) but the risk specifica…
Besides, wearing a mask is not exactly a heavy burden to bear. Yes, it's annoying, but the consequences of not doing so are also annoying, and in more than zero cases deadly.
It's such a low burden, that it's almost silly to think about not doing it, given the current situation.
Honestly, it just seems like parents are taking out their frustrations about the situation on other people who are also stuck in this situation. It's absolutely bananas, how acrimonious this has gotten, all because political actors saw a way to divide the country in a way that benefitted them.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…
Blood-oxygen level is not relevant when it comes to mental well-being. I have the exact same problem as the parent commenter. I've tried exercising with a mask (cloth and surgical), and it feels like getting waterboarded (because the mask inevitably becomes soaked in sweat). It causes a great amount of anxiety for me, and literally feels like torture. I don't care about what lung volume/blood oxygen "studies" say.