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Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

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Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#121

Post by nopenopenopeno »

ajb wrote: post #104
maxbond wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out something my sibling commenters seem to be missing; nopenopenopeno never suggested that the _government_ run these services instead. They said that private companies were incapable of doing this, and that competition was not a suitable mechanism for achieving the necessary outcomes. It is quite possible that neither the state nor private industry can do this, and that we need _something else_. I…

Absolutely. As engineers, we don't reduce the world to a choice between two mechanisms, to be battled over with no hope of improvement. We are not divided into mongoites and postgresists, we are interested in new solutions and improvements. We should think of institutional design in the same way. How do institutions work? What are the options and how do they fit together? How do they affect the affordances and limita…

Yes! But analyzing private companies is little use because ultimately they are authoritarian. That will somehow have to change.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#122

Post by jrgoff »

barbazoo wrote: post #36
AlwaysRock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very HN response. "My FB community got destroyed. Can anyone else?" "FB bad. Build your own." Sorry OP. I don't know anyone who can help. It seems to me like FB would be able to reactivate the group if you can get a hold of someone. I don't think they purged their DB of your group.

It's not very empathetic that's right but it's still true. People have to stop building their livelihoods or passion projects on these platforms, if they want to have any control over them at least.

Building your own carries it's own set of risks. I can't afford the infosec, IT, devops, etc. that a large tech company has. Sure if I build my own and get hacked, I may have more ability to directly effect the situation, but I will likely have to spend much more of my time wrangling tech and may end up being more likely to be hacked overall.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#123

Post by nopenopenopeno »

scarface74 wrote: post #55
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public institutions governed by a democratic state not bought by private companies would absolutely do a better job. Realize we don’t have any public institutions in the United States. Our entire government works for multinational corporations, not the people living here.

There is nothing “democratic” about the US government. Between gerrymandering and the Constitutionally architected 2 Senators per state, the US is very much ruled by the minority.

That was my point. Was that not clear?

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#124

Post by scarface74 »

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #123
scarface74 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing “democratic” about the US government. Between gerrymandering and the Constitutionally architected 2 Senators per state, the US is very much ruled by the minority.

That was my point. Was that not clear?

You are attributing to the multinational corporations. I am saying because of the makeup of the government - mandated by the Constitution - the government will statistically not be representative of the people. That being said, why would I want the government to have more power?

Has government control of communications ever ended up working out well?

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#125

Post by ygjb »

scarface74 wrote: post #115
ygjb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us still live in functioning democracies. Also, it's worth pointing out that relying on privately owned or publicly traded corporations is not an effective strategy for preserving freedom; those businesses will only do that as long as they can justify it to their shareholders (private or public), and are subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdictions they reside in (kind of the reason alot of 'western' c…

So the US has the highest incarceration rate of any western country. The police routinely stop and harass minorities for no other reason than the color of their skin, the judicial system routinely hands out harsher punishment for the same crime when the defendant is minority, etc. Even when you take race out of the equation, when you look at the congressional make up in the US and compare it to the party more people…

I don't know what to tell you. The people of the United States have continuously ceded power to their government, and the corporations that wield influence over it, while being spoonfed lies about what freedom actually means by government and media.

The right to bear arms supercedes the right to live in safe communities (and as a former infantry man, I can assert that more weapons in the hands of untrained civilians does not make communities more safe).

The right to an health care (abortion) is superceded by so called "religious freedoms".

The right to vote is superceded by politicians who rewrite election laws and electoral districts to choose their constituents.

Freedom to discriminate is beginning to supercede the right to freedom from discrimination.

These problems aren't unique to the United States, and in Canada we have our own issues.

> Private corporations don’t have the power of the state to coerce me to do anything.

* blinks in private law enforcement, the radical expansion of surveillance by private corporations, and lack of accountability of tech companies *

Uh, yeah, that's by design, but on a global basis, the design is breaking. There are more and more exceptionally wealthy individuals and corporations that are wielding power and working in domains that have typically been the purview of states and governments.

We need stronger regulation of corporations globally, and strong treaties that unify global regulation and information sharing of how that regulation occurs, or we will continue to cede freedom and governance to the whims of corporations that will wield significant influence over elected officials. One thing going for unelected government, they generally DGAF about the whims of corporations, and we have seen what some countries are willing to do in order to preserve influence over corporations (I would love to hear an honest, unbiased tell all from Jack Ma for example).

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#126

Post by metalised »

Giorgi wrote: post #66

sorry dude, its gone. It is not deleted though, it is merged with larger page they are building. I know because something similar happened to me ( I allowed it to happen out of curiosity. )

what exactly happened to yours then, if I may ask?

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#128

Post by jokethrowaway »

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #102
maxbond wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out something my sibling commenters seem to be missing; nopenopenopeno never suggested that the _government_ run these services instead. They said that private companies were incapable of doing this, and that competition was not a suitable mechanism for achieving the necessary outcomes. It is quite possible that neither the state nor private industry can do this, and that we need _something else_. I…

I appreciate your comment and I don’t mind putting my cards on the table: I am a Marxist. I believe in democratic institutions by the people and for the people. Capitalist states will never suffice. Social democracy is good, but unsustainable. Soviet Communism was a failure, but a single failure. Capitalism is a necessary step in human progress, but it cannot last. Libertarian solutions, as you propose, are no more i…

We disagree a lot but I really like your post.

Capitalism is a natural behaviour which emerge in human interactions. As you say, we're social animals and we interact with one another.

The problem lies with the "capitalist" states which are not capitalism but crony capitalism, aka just socialism with extra steps. When a state with regulatory monopoly and a monopoly of violence exists, you can't have pure capitalism. Big businesses will just corrupt the government and you'll end up in a system where the top dogs can keep everyone else poor and under control - while still believing their democratic vote is worth anything.

I don't think Marxism is a solution, for the simple reason that human beings are not perfect: they are corruptible and as soon as you end up having an institution with the power to do something for a large number of people, you'll have power and corruption. Marxism is great in theory, but in practice it just devolves to the same system we live in where top dogs eat small dogs.

The shift we really need is decentralisation. No centralised governments. People trading with people and exchanging services and goods with no third parties stealing a part. Healthcare and protection (and private protection agencies offering different sets of laws) being sold and insured like any other services. Voluntary charity to help those in needs instead of mandatory taxes.

We need to have the smallest entities possible so that there won't be someone far away deciding what you can and cannot do. In a world without taxes, big companies won't have ways of avoiding taxes and shift them to the upper middle class, they won't have someone to corrupt to prevent innovation.

The answer for social networks is, again, decentralisation. The systems we have now (eg. mastodon) are still immature but, unless Facebook pay some government to introduce even more laws to comply with (GDPR comes to mind), a good decentralised competitors is going to come up, eventually.

Everyone should have their own server with their own data and communicate with other users on their own servers.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#129

Post by jokethrowaway »

ygjb wrote: post #108
scarface74 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just imagine what happens when the government controls the communications. What happens when “they” get into power and start censoring and controlling communications that you don’t agree with? In this case “they” are the party with policies that you don’t agree with. There was a study in the US that the government fails to pass policies that 80%+ of the population agrees with. One easy example is making cannabis l…

Some of us still live in functioning democracies. Also, it's worth pointing out that relying on privately owned or publicly traded corporations is not an effective strategy for preserving freedom; those businesses will only do that as long as they can justify it to their shareholders (private or public), and are subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdictions they reside in (kind of the reason alot of 'western' c…

> Some of us still live in functioning democracies.

Where I am now I need to show a QR code to buy food and there is a curfew at 10pm. None of these measures had been discussed in the latest elections and they even violate existing laws.

I don't know how you can call most of the world a functioning democracy.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#130

Post by emteycz »

Jolter wrote: post #82
adventured wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook pages are no more important today than the yellow pages were yesterday, or classified ads, or newspapers. Very little of which was publicly operated. If your local newspaper blockaded you out of their advertising section 50 years ago (eg they dislike you), it could have been devastating too. There are a lot of scenarios like that. You can't get around those potential problems by saying everything should be r…

The yellow pages were absolutely run by state-owned telecom operators, less than 25 years ago, all over Europe.

Only because of the communist past. Most states privatized these operators and the yellow pages continued to be published by them as private companies without any need for regulation.
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