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Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

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Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#101

Post by [deleted] »

ygjb wrote: post #35
bko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that public organizations would run a more secure responsive network. My interactions with public institutions makes me doubt this assumption, especially for something as vast and complicated as facebook's network.

I will point out that in Canada, many of our telecoms were run by privately operated, publicly owned organizations (Crown Corporations) that operated at arms length. Until they were sold for pennies on the dollar by governments looking to score a quick win for "fiscal responsibility" and "small government", these organizations operated with a high degree of public scrutiny, and had the goal of offering low cost, reli…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#102

Post by nopenopenopeno »

maxbond wrote: post #73
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #5

Universally necessary services like communication, healthcare, and social media (the digital plaza) can never be justly managed by private companies. It is an inherent structural contradiction that has failed and will continue to fail our society until we are willing to organize resistance beyond the realm of consumer choice.

I'd like to point out something my sibling commenters seem to be missing; nopenopenopeno never suggested that the _government_ run these services instead. They said that private companies were incapable of doing this, and that competition was not a suitable mechanism for achieving the necessary outcomes. It is quite possible that neither the state nor private industry can do this, and that we need _something else_. I…

I appreciate your comment and I don’t mind putting my cards on the table: I am a Marxist. I believe in democratic institutions by the people and for the people. Capitalist states will never suffice. Social democracy is good, but unsustainable. Soviet Communism was a failure, but a single failure. Capitalism is a necessary step in human progress, but it cannot last. Libertarian solutions, as you propose, are no more idealistic than mine, but I don’t put my faith in them because ultimately we are social beings. We all live in a society, and we must attend to it as such. We need institutions by the people and for the people, and the great leaps in technological developments made by capitalist state funded programs in the past century (private companies did very little in comparison) give us a chance to reimagine a new future, but that can only happen by acknowledging the old one is dying, and already dead for for an increasing proportion of the working class.

My only issue with Mastadon is that regular busy working people with families to raise on depressingly low wages cannot justify the effort to participate. If if can’t work for all of our society, it can’t work for our society. Period. So, if we can figure out how to make it work for everybody, then it sounds like the answer to me. I suggest we start by fighting for a national universal healthcare program to undermine the first of the private interests that control our public goods. It will also incentivize development of democratic institutions of the working class and save millions of lives.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#103

Post by barbazoo »

drstewart wrote: post #85
barbazoo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very empathetic that's right but it's still true. People have to stop building their livelihoods or passion projects on these platforms, if they want to have any control over them at least.

If you want a society where people do those kinds of things, maybe you should build your own society that fits your criteria. I know it's not very empathetic to say but it's still true.

I rather try to educate the people I know about the consequences of relying on companies like Meta for things like that hoping it doesn't happen to them. That's all we can do. And I guess contributing to the technology that enables alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#104

Post by ajb »

maxbond wrote: post #73
nopenopenopeno wrote: post #5

Universally necessary services like communication, healthcare, and social media (the digital plaza) can never be justly managed by private companies. It is an inherent structural contradiction that has failed and will continue to fail our society until we are willing to organize resistance beyond the realm of consumer choice.

I'd like to point out something my sibling commenters seem to be missing; nopenopenopeno never suggested that the _government_ run these services instead. They said that private companies were incapable of doing this, and that competition was not a suitable mechanism for achieving the necessary outcomes. It is quite possible that neither the state nor private industry can do this, and that we need _something else_. I…

Absolutely.

As engineers, we don't reduce the world to a choice between two mechanisms, to be battled over with no hope of improvement. We are not divided into mongoites and postgresists, we are interested in new solutions and improvements.

We should think of institutional design in the same way. How do institutions work? What are the options and how do they fit together? How do they affect the affordances and limitations of each?

Politics should be limited to goals, it is a crap way to decide about methods.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#105

Post by dylan604 »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #94
dylan604 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Imagine your DMV experiences but applied to this. Then again, based on stories like this, private seems to be even worse. Even the DMV has human interaction possible after demoralizing wait times unlike shouting into blackholes that is FAANG support

I love to doodoo on dmv / dot experience out of habit and cultural inertia, but in reality, my local Service Ontario is GREAT. Most of the time line ups are manageable; but most importantly, I get to talk to somebody who is obligated and typically willing to help me out and point me in right direction. Worst case scenario, I can come again and talk to another person. It is THAT final resort that's not even an option…

I never said the human interaction part of the experience was bad. I specifically stated the wait times. Since everyone wants to share personal anecdotes, then in my neck of the woods in Texas, the state has moved from small regionally located DMV offices in favor of centralized extremely large megastore types of places that they push people to visit. Even when making an appointment online, you still wait an incredibly long amount of time in this massive incubator of a holding area. The last time I visited was before COVID, and I was already concerned about the petri dish level of experiment that was the waiting area.

The DMV trope exists for reasons. Sadly, you may not be able to relate, but it doesn't diminish the validity for those that do. (sadly, here, being used ironically)

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#106

Post by bko »

tluyben2 wrote: post #23
bko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that public organizations would run a more secure responsive network. My interactions with public institutions makes me doubt this assumption, especially for something as vast and complicated as facebook's network.

But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act. With canned response AI private corps I don’t have this. Also, at least where I live, if you make more of a stink at the office of the public org in question, you get helped faster and often better.

> But I can go to a desk and, talk to someone, and, eventually, possibly after a very long time, someone will act.

Ever tried to get a pothole filled?

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#107

Post by dylan604 »

oauea wrote: post #77
_jal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. I have experience with DMVs in six states. Five of those have always been perfectly fine, nothing to complain about. If I'm competent enough to get my paperwork right, it is just a 15 minute process. New York and California even take appointments, no waiting. I got my license way back when in Tennessee, and they were incompetent jerks, and t…

> Tangent, but using the DMV as a horror-cliche anchor is very state-specific. And very America-focused. Never had any issues at all with our local equivalent.

assuming "our" is non-American, but non-American is a really large place. ;-) care to narrow it down?

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#108

Post by ygjb »

scarface74 wrote: post #51
ygjb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will point out that in Canada, many of our telecoms were run by privately operated, publicly owned organizations (Crown Corporations) that operated at arms length. Until they were sold for pennies on the dollar by governments looking to score a quick win for "fiscal responsibility" and "small government", these organizations operated with a high degree of public scrutiny, and had the goal of offering low cost, reli…

So just imagine what happens when the government controls the communications. What happens when “they” get into power and start censoring and controlling communications that you don’t agree with? In this case “they” are the party with policies that you don’t agree with. There was a study in the US that the government fails to pass policies that 80%+ of the population agrees with. One easy example is making cannabis l…

Some of us still live in functioning democracies. Also, it's worth pointing out that relying on privately owned or publicly traded corporations is not an effective strategy for preserving freedom; those businesses will only do that as long as they can justify it to their shareholders (private or public), and are subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdictions they reside in (kind of the reason alot of 'western' companies prefer to either not do business, or conduct business via arms length entities in countries like Russia, China, and other places).

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#109

Post by toastedwedge »

KerrickStaley wrote: post #64
vertis wrote: post #16

Sometimes company legal teams can be the most accessible way to draw attention to something like this, and I don't mean in a combative way. They're very risk conscious, they see a '10+ years of building a heavy metal community, gone like a puff of smoke' in terms of risks, both of bad publicity but also if you were to somehow litigate because of the damage to your business or project. Often they have an email address…

The patio11 blog post you're looking for is https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r...

This is fascinating. It certainly makes sense; in a way, I came to this conclusion on my own without having been formally schooled. I guess it comes from observations.

Wouldn't mind a few extra tips and perspectives though, so definitely going on my reading list for the weekend! Thanks for mentioning it.

Re: Ask HN: Hacker claimed ownership and then deleted my Facebook Page of 50k users

#110

Post by LambdaTrain »

Not a response as a solution to Op: is there any recommended open-source project that can be used to self-host a comminity server?

I would expect that as a host I just need to focus on configuring and maintaining instead of learning to build a website, for example, it sounds like hosting vpn using Wireguard.

On the other hand, I wonder if that really makes it better off than to use fb/discord, since if fb/discord is vulnerable to hack, so is my own hosted one.

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