Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#951

Post by standardUser » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:27 AM UTC

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #942

standardUser wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the people hoarding ICU beds and grinding medical staff into the ground are no longer disproportionately unvaccinated COVID patients, I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction.

> ... I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction. I think you're absolutely right, which is why I'm here banging this drum. People should care about the distinction, because it matters if you want to actually understand the situation. Certain groups are overrepresented in the prison system in the US. Some people think this means that all members of those groups are bad people. The people who think this…

If the distinction is vaccinated people vs people with natural immunity, I don't think that's a scientifically sound distinction. Do you mean people who recovered 20 months ago from a long gone variant? Or people who recovered with no symptoms last week from Omicron? Do we know what it means if a person has antibodies from a recovery a year ago, given the advent of brand new strains that have spread like wildfire and are only just now being studied in depth?

What we do know, thanks to a mountain of unambiguous data, is that people who have had vaccine shots go to the hospital way, way, way less often than those who have not. Which means vaccines prevent other people from suffering bad health outcomes due to lack of healthcare resources. It is a win for everyone.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#952

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:27 AM UTC

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #942

standardUser wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the people hoarding ICU beds and grinding medical staff into the ground are no longer disproportionately unvaccinated COVID patients, I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction.

> ... I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction. I think you're absolutely right, which is why I'm here banging this drum. People should care about the distinction, because it matters if you want to actually understand the situation. Certain groups are overrepresented in the prison system in the US. Some people think this means that all members of those groups are bad people. The people who think this…

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#953

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:29 AM UTC

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #942

standardUser wrote: post #886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the people hoarding ICU beds and grinding medical staff into the ground are no longer disproportionately unvaccinated COVID patients, I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction.

> ... I don't see anyone caring too much about the distinction. I think you're absolutely right, which is why I'm here banging this drum. People should care about the distinction, because it matters if you want to actually understand the situation. Certain groups are overrepresented in the prison system in the US. Some people think this means that all members of those groups are bad people. The people who think this…

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#954

Post by autokad » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:32 AM UTC

AshleyGrant wrote: post #758

autokad wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my first 2 shots were fine, but my booster f'ed me up. I was in lots of body pain for 36 hours. 5 weeks later I caught omicron. I imagine by some point this year Ill be considered not fully vaccinated, but right now my desire to get another booster is very small. right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron. likely by the next mandated booster the variant of the tim…

> right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron This is true, but the data is showing that being boosted means that catching Omicron when boosted means you are much, much more likely to have a very minor illness. Refusing future boosters comes at the risk of your own health, as well as the health of the people around you.

> as well as the health of the people around you

'the science' says you are wrong. the vaccines do not prevent spread. that is very very very clear in the data now, so stop spreading that nonsense

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#955

Post by autokad » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:35 AM UTC

AshleyGrant wrote: post #758

autokad wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my first 2 shots were fine, but my booster f'ed me up. I was in lots of body pain for 36 hours. 5 weeks later I caught omicron. I imagine by some point this year Ill be considered not fully vaccinated, but right now my desire to get another booster is very small. right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron. likely by the next mandated booster the variant of the tim…

> right now we know that even the booster provides little ability to stop you from getting omicron This is true, but the data is showing that being boosted means that catching Omicron when boosted means you are much, much more likely to have a very minor illness. Refusing future boosters comes at the risk of your own health, as well as the health of the people around you.

> as well as the health of the people around you

'the science' says you are wrong. the vaccines do not prevent spread. that is very very very clear in the data now, so stop spreading that nonsense

that assumption relied on at least 3 things being true: #1 ) having lower symptoms from the vaccine would not encourage those shedding the virus but not being observably sick to go out and spread the disease (*hint this is probably a pretty bad assumption) #2 ) the vaccine would reduce viral load #3 ) a reduction of viral load would prevent you from spreading it to others

It turns out the vaccine does not lower viral load. and even though this has been shown to be medically true, you can see that in places like Isreal and Germany where the virus spreads pretty easily. hell, even in the US, you dont get nearly 1m cases a day without vaccinated people spreading it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#956

Post by 1270018080 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:47 AM UTC

quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

It doesn't matter.

Covid vaccine mandate -> good.

You can end the thought there. No need to come up with a slippery slope doomsday scenario.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#957

Post by hnfong » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #679

nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

I'd like to make sure I understand your underlying position before proceeding. I think what you're trying to say is that you believe there is an adequate enough case for people who had prior infection to avoid what they believe is an unnecessary medical procedure which may have some risk. And, scientifically, you believe it's absolutely certain that in this specific situation, prior infection immunity provides very g…

I get the sense that those within scientific circles tend to get a bit triggered when others attack them doing "bad science".

I suppose it's a loaded term has a wide range of connotations, perhaps the point about not giving more fuel to "anti-science" groups like flat-earthers and hard line antivaxxers is justified.

But then I couldn't shake the feeling that the criticism of "bad science" is justified -- what you described is basically scientists making political and policy decisions, and dispensing not-exactly-true statements to the public. That may not be "bad science" for the reason that it's not science at all -- the scientist is tasked with being a politician, and we all know what politicians do.

The problem is that to outsiders (like me), there's really no way we can tell which hat the "Scientist" is wearing. I personally think that scientists trying to pretend to be politicians is going to backfire badly in the long run, no amount of policing against non-scientists bad mouthing "science" is going to fix that.

The fundamental problem is, without a full-blown censorship system to silence skeptics (whether justified or not), there's really no a good way to prop up the authority of the scientific establishment unless they stop telling white lies and establish authority based on a track record of speaking objective truths.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#958

Post by gcannonkjp » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:00 AM UTC

mplewis wrote: post #401

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herd immunity is for the herd. The US is where it is because we have individuals willing to fight for individual rights. If casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality in this country then I say let it be. The vaccinated are protected and therefore you are safe (assuming you are vaccinated). So why do you need to proselytize your doctrine on those around you? You're allowed your own opinions, chant your…

Quoted post unavailable.

Your disgust means nothing to anyone. And chiding some one to "be better" is the height of smugness. You are not the arbiter or what is right or wrong.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#959

Post by HWR_14 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:19 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

> (2) it is very unlikely that any evidence or logical arguments will chance their minds.

While this is true, we've seen that employer mandates actually do change their minds. Yes, something like 1-2% of people don't get vaccinated even in that case, but that's far less than the 20% that claim they will lose their jobs to not get vaccinated.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#960

Post by homonculus1 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 6:24 AM UTC

evandale wrote: post #835

ipaddr wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no downside to force vaccinating a population with something new that doesn't expect the first long term study to be in until 2024? How could that be controversial? A woman has a right to say my body my choice. You think removing that choice is without controversy?

>A woman has a right to say my body my choice. You think removing that choice is without controversy? Choosing to terminate a pregnancy is not comparable to choosing to spread a highly contagious disease.

LOL