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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#131

Post by snovv_crash »

mabub24 wrote: post #39
tims33 wrote: post #12

Creating a competitive advantage for non-big box stores? This is an incredibly odd policy.

Most of the provinces have been engaged in pandemic response theater. The core issue is hospital capacity, and the provinces across the board have failed to improve or address the issues in their healthcare systems. Quebec has adopted a particularly theatrical set of of responses (curfews, this latest insistence on vaccine "passports" for stores), but I don't think anyone really expects these to be anything more than…

Assuming that you're a software engineer in some kind of capacity because it's HN. If we put it into Big-O terms, reducing transmission via whatever means affects the exponent of the spread, whereas adding hospital capacity is a linear response. At a certain quantity adding hospital capacity makes sense, but at some point you can't beat the dynamics of the situation and the required hospital capacity can quickly grow hundreds of times beyond what exists, if, that is, you don't contain the spread.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#132

Post by errcorrectcode »

belval wrote: post #77
0x_rs wrote: post #59

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it…

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

Have you lived in major cities in America? ;-)

In ATX, there's a deficit of 200+ police, 50+ EMTs, and who-knows-how-many nurses. Finding a decent doctor haphazardly is like playing Russian roulette with 5 bullets in a 6 wheel. (Obligatory firearms metaphor for Texas.)

I've already been through a couple of psychiatrists since their misanthropic lack of BSM and acceptable human behaviors like listening were insurmountable. Found a good otolaryngologist and a gastroent. PCP also needs to be changed.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#133

Post by moistly »

jaywalk wrote: post #58
myko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of data showing unvaccinated are at higher risk of severe illness and spread disease more than vaccinated folks. You are wrong. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021112... The data is clear. They're not banned from buying groceries, they're banned from entering the stores - which unquestionably would lead to them spread…

I'm talking about banning unvaccinated people from buying groceries, specifically. Which is what this is about.

Nobody is banned from buying groceries. Good god.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#134

Post by errcorrectcode »

belval wrote: post #129
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had almost 2 years to prepare for this. Further, hasnt the "lack of workers" been exacerbated from vaccine mandates on workers? So, you have a system that cannot competently do its work prior to crisis cannot plan with enough time and *further chooses to shoot itself of the foot by limiting their labor None of these seem to indicate that those in charge care about taxpayers in the process. What is the government…

> Further, hasnt the "lack of workers" been exacerbated from vaccine mandates on workers? There is no vaccine mandate for workers. They tried to push for it initially but they realized that they couldn't deal with the unvaccinated workers leaving, especially in long term care homes.

Doesn't that imply LTC needs to pay more and forbid unvaccinated conspiracy nuts from watching grandma?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#135

Post by jpambrun »

rastignack wrote: post #18
VHRanger wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quebec has a heavily socialized medical system. 10% of the population is unvaccinated, but make up >50% of COVID beds in hopitals, a significant fraction of the *entire medical system*. At some point the other 90% of taxpayers shouldn't subsidized the stupid decisions of the remaining 10%. I'm not saying banning grocery store access is necessarily it, but something needs to be done

And overweight people make up to 65% of those. See a dark pattern here ?

It would be comparable if we had a vaccine for obesity. I see no dark pattern.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#136

Post by rastignack »

jpambrun wrote: post #135
rastignack wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And overweight people make up to 65% of those. See a dark pattern here ?

It would be comparable if we had a vaccine for obesity. I see no dark pattern.

Diet and exercise. I’ve made efforts my whole life to eat well.

I did not fear Covid for that precise reason (I’m under 40)

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#137

Post by errcorrectcode »

belval wrote: post #130
hackstack wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can shop at alternatives (if they exist in the specific town in Quebec), for now. It's not really hyperbole, I think. The basic right is at the very least being threatened, if not explicitly violated (yet).

Quebec is not like the US in that regard, you won't find a town here that only has a Walmart/Costco. Those are limited to more developed urban centers that have plenty of alternatives.

In this region, there aren't many food/goods deserts.

Even the nowhereville my mom lives in has an H-E-B, Homeless Despot home improvement palace, pharmacy, and greasy spoon restaurants.

I have seen grocery store "deserts" in tiny towns (<2k people) populated by dollar stores while grocery stores are 10-40 miles away. That's the price of living in rural areas. There are other areas in the US where Walmart came in, destroyed local independent businesses, and left.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#138

Post by furgooswft13 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #96
janeroe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Have you payed for building the roads you drive or walk on to work? The pipes that deliver your water? The fire services? Do you imagine you pay the full cost of the food you are eating? Of the irrigation systems? Garbage pick up and disposal? Management of your local community, including things like accounting for its money etc? Calling taxation "theft" is delusional.

All those things existed before confiscatory taxes were imposed on basically all forms of economic activity. None have improved while the government has stolen 50%+ of my income. In fact they have universally gotten worse, and still more expensive.

This is just "basic infrastructure as a service", except the only service you're actually getting for your payment is not going to jail. That's called extortion.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#139

Post by errcorrectcode »

vanusa wrote: post #47
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

Denmark is moving to getting rid of ALL restrictions. We'll see. They did that in September of course, only to re-introduce them 2 months later. Keep in mind they're only able to do this (if it ends up working) because they have the highest vaccination rate in Europe. What Quebec's rates are, I don't know.

BoJo is also trying that in the UK to save his office.

People being "tired" of something (pandemic fatigue) doesn't matter if loosened collective hygiene standards would kill too many people.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#140

Post by EForEndeavour »

daenz wrote: post #118
EForEndeavour wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, no, which is why we don't mandate vaccines against viruses which don't cause once-in-a-century pandemics. But that's separate from what I wanted to respond to, which was the false equivalence between seatbelts/helmets and vaccines.

The new authoritarian infrastructure that we put in place in order to "combat the pandemic" will live long after the pandemic, and negatively affect the lives of everyone going forward. Governments do not have a track record of giving up power. Telling people to stay indoors if they're scared is much more preferable to injecting government into every aspect of our lives. Also I'm not sure why you're mentioning false…

Sorry, you're right, and in that sense we're on the same side: I shouldn't have written "false equivalence." I meant to point out that your objection of "well, seatbelts don't require you to inject chemicals into your body, so there's a huge difference" is irrelevant precisely because there is a huge difference between the bad outcome that seatbelts prevent the bad outcome that vaccines prevent.
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