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Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

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Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most egregious of all is suppression of Lab Leak theory from the beginning. Emails between Collins and Fauci are absolutely chilling. Do yourself a favor and look up unredacted versions (Alina Chen’s Twitter) through FOIA requests. Holyshit was my reaction. The Lancet letter was also riddled with misinformation, suppression and conflicts of interest (Dr. Drazdak). I expect more from our leaders.

> I expect more from our leaders. You should, and you should be free to discuss and write about exactly what your expectations are and how those leaders failed you.

I actually believe in Institutions with a capital I and want them to succeed, build trust and help educate people of their reputation, historical significance and their importance in society. I’ve worked with NIST for many years - brilliant people doing good work.

But when they continue to lie to public, suppress facts, have a political agenda, and media is along with it, it’s becoming harder.

I still think CDC does good work. Just that the leadership needs to come out clean and apologize the public for being partisan.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#32

We don’t have a trust problem. We have a lack of trustworthy people in positions of power problem. I see how one can be easily confused. But we (the People) don’t trust politicians or business leaders because they have show repeatedly they’re not worthy of trust.

You could argue that one begets the other. I am not going to argue chicken an egg, but US has generally been very anti-government. If you poll Americans about their representatives, the responses are uniformly negative. And yet, we keep re-electing them in massive numbers. It is absolutely fascinating.

No post body was provided.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#33

One problem I am having is that on the left I thought things were pretty high quality from a facts / science side, and that has eroded. Fair disclosure - I'm a max dem donor and will likely continue to vote 100% dem. 7,000 (!) scientists have signed the John Snow memorandum. It states that "Furthermore, there is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection". https://www.johnsn…

> then says masks don't help

Actually, they said this:

Masks don't help

Masks do help, but save them for the healthcare workers

Masks do help, get one, a cloth one is fine.

Masks do help, double-mask

Mask do help, but you need N95 masks

Given that even with a properly fitting N95 mask that is form fitting you can still smell everything right through it, I think a properly fit, and negative pressure tested N100 or P100 is likely the actual protective standard of solid protection. Unfortunately, I have a few P100s sitting around and I can tell you that sleeping in one, or wearing one reguarly around town makes me feel I am living in a post apocalyptic dystopian future. Think 12 monkeys(1) minus the full chem/bio suit and crazy decon procedures.

This whole ordeal has greatly shaken my faith in technocratic government.

(1) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#34
I seem to recall reading "You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28684250

I hope substack can really change the game here because their business model delivers content you paid to receive rather than competing for your attention. More on that here: https://on.substack.com/p/substacks-view-of-content-moderati...

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#35

You could argue that it is just another stage in 'Escape from Freedom'. I am going to simplify a lot here, but basically the process goes something like this: -Things are hard; people fight and win some degree of autonomy -Status quo sets in; people believe this is how it always will be -Things get easy and people forget what freedom is -Things get hard..

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Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#36

No doubt, these censors and would-be censors have the best of intentions. But you've really got your head up your own ass if you convince yourself that you are protecting people by deciding the information that is appropriate for them to be exposed to. I just don't understand the shortsightedness, the naivete, or the willingness to discard the principle of free speech.

> No doubt, these censors and would-be censors have the best of intentions.

I would contend that profit is at least partially the intention of these actors, largely indirectly by people who are invested in stock markets.

Capitalism is a symptom of power and information asymmetries. A few years ago, Zuckerberg said that all problems would be solved if everybody told the truth all the time. It's not that simple though. There's a Greg Egan story about a couple that undergoes a procedure to experience all the thoughts and feelings of each other for a period of time, which ultimately results in their breakup.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#37
post #34

I seem to recall reading "You either die an MVP or live long enough to build content moderation" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28684250 I hope substack can really change the game here because their business model delivers content you paid to receive rather than competing for your attention. More on that here: https://on.substack.com/p/substacks-view-of-content-moderati...

I wish substack had better discovery features like Medium and fewer spammy emails. I signed up for Scott's blog and got like 30 emails in a week. Annoying

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#38
Reading the comments here, I get the impression that a lot of folks view censorship as a tool of oppression by those in power and free speech as the shield against it.

If the past 10 years have taught us anything, it's that both "free speech" and censorship can be weaponised by those in power who wish to manipulate the discourse for their own personal gain.

If we want regular folks to have a greater say in public discourse again, we need to strike a balance that limits the use of both sides as tools of oppression.

I'd personally be in favour of fines or other punishments for deliberately or negligently propagating misinformation, assuming that the decision was made by a jury and not an unelected body.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#39

> It means we allow writers to publish what they want and readers to decide for themselves what to read I hope they stick to their guns. History suggests they won't.

Yeah, there's a reason for "protocols, not platforms"... And keeping jumping between platforms might not be that easy : see YouTube.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#40
post #5

Wait.. what? Society has a trust problem? Implying we should trust people in power (economic and state) that have repeatedly and shamelessly acted for their own benefit against the interest of the public while they control the media (tv and online) to censor and/or shaddow-ban criticism and alternate views? Yes, if that's what you mean. We have a trust problem because there are people in power who are not trustworthy…

I reckon it's a human condition issue, bare metal type shit. People, in general, simply can't possess the merits of blind trust and must be scrutinized. This striated opinion on a spectrum of trust, and in time resolution in to facts. Dialectics of account. Naive interventions only stand to exacerbate the condition, by my reckoning, and I don't suspect there is a real way to make smart interventions at scale. I think the best resolution is to have modular multi-scalar and largely decentralized modes with far more outgrowths given the capacity for representation of their given polity.

But even in that case it doesn't fully rectify the problem, because at the basest levels information is imperfect in practical terms. It is in those terms that experts and professionals tend to be lost to public account - that is to say that making wide sweeping claims and saying it was some unexpected event that overturned their predictions frees them from being held accountable, and that is where trust is lost. If you tell me in 10 years that SPY will have gained 60%, versus if you said "Look I don't know, I can't tell you where the price is going to end at close today, let alone in 10 years, but historically the odds look good, that's not without caveats, the fed, the government, the people are all constantly evolving against their peers and there's a lot of novel forces, so you could end up with negative yields." The latter case is, let's say hypothetically, realistic, and thus eschews liability.

Now if the former case turns out to be true, certainly the latter form will be lambasted for the potential gains lost. In the latter coming to fruit, will the financier be celebrated? Will the former be able to excuse himself, despite bad calls?

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