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Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

on.substack.com

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Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#21

Post by happytoexplain »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #3

The problem is the government and traditional media have been caught lying again and again. Once that trust is broken I don't know how you rebuild it. Hell people I commonly talk to still believe a police officer was beaten to death on 1/6 and that people, other then the women shot for trying to enter the chambers, died directly due to the riot. All because of that what the news reported and quietly fixed days later…

>quietly fixed

Note that, while I didn't personally consume any sources of news making these mistakes about this event and therefore can't reasonably comment on them, this specific wording is used extremely commonly as an uncharitable attack on those who are opposite to one's own political leanings. I.e. corrections are always described as "quiet" despite frequently being published in the same manner as the original material.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#22

Post by indymike »

Freedom of press and freedom of speech exist exactly because government could not be trusted, and eventually, lies have to be covered by making it illegal to expose those lies. Censorship seems like a good idea until you realize the end game looks a lot like "Best Korea".

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#23

Post by rdiddly »

It's sad that Substack has to sit there and explicitly explain that "Here is where you go when you want no censorship and to have all different views in a big melting pot where it's up to you to sort them out through rational interrogation, thought and/or debate." Even in my lifetime I seem to recall that place was usually just called "society." Granted I was young and am partly remembering what I was told the world was like, rather than having experienced it directly. Nonetheless, they did bother to tell me that. That interrogation/debate process was understood to be an essential prerequisite for democracy.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#24

Post by indymike »

systemvoltage wrote: post #13
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #3

The problem is the government and traditional media have been caught lying again and again. Once that trust is broken I don't know how you rebuild it. Hell people I commonly talk to still believe a police officer was beaten to death on 1/6 and that people, other then the women shot for trying to enter the chambers, died directly due to the riot. All because of that what the news reported and quietly fixed days later…

The most egregious of all is suppression of Lab Leak theory from the beginning. Emails between Collins and Fauci are absolutely chilling. Do yourself a favor and look up unredacted versions (Alina Chen’s Twitter) through FOIA requests. Holyshit was my reaction. The Lancet letter was also riddled with misinformation, suppression and conflicts of interest (Dr. Drazdak). I expect more from our leaders.

> I expect more from our leaders.

You should, and you should be free to discuss and write about exactly what your expectations are and how those leaders failed you.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#25

Post by SQueeeeeL »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #19
gtsop wrote: post #5

Wait.. what? Society has a trust problem? Implying we should trust people in power (economic and state) that have repeatedly and shamelessly acted for their own benefit against the interest of the public while they control the media (tv and online) to censor and/or shaddow-ban criticism and alternate views? Yes, if that's what you mean. We have a trust problem because there are people in power who are not trustworthy…

I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as a honest and trustworthy politician.

The problem is we as a society have very few local level leaders. Most of the people who represent us often represent 1000+ individuals. At such a scale, the nature of leadership/politicians change...

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#26

Post by skeptical2 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #19
gtsop wrote: post #5

Wait.. what? Society has a trust problem? Implying we should trust people in power (economic and state) that have repeatedly and shamelessly acted for their own benefit against the interest of the public while they control the media (tv and online) to censor and/or shaddow-ban criticism and alternate views? Yes, if that's what you mean. We have a trust problem because there are people in power who are not trustworthy…

I'm not even sure if there is such a thing as a honest and trustworthy politician.

No post body was provided.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#27

Post by umvi »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17
onphonenow wrote: post #9

One problem I am having is that on the left I thought things were pretty high quality from a facts / science side, and that has eroded. Fair disclosure - I'm a max dem donor and will likely continue to vote 100% dem. 7,000 (!) scientists have signed the John Snow memorandum. It states that "Furthermore, there is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection". https://www.johnsn…

Sorry, how is this a left/right issue? The actions you describe the CDC having undertaken were under a right wing government. I don't know how you're making this a political divide issue.

He's not pointing fingers at the other party, he's saying his trust in his own party has eroded.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#28

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gtsop wrote: post #5

Wait.. what? Society has a trust problem? Implying we should trust people in power (economic and state) that have repeatedly and shamelessly acted for their own benefit against the interest of the public while they control the media (tv and online) to censor and/or shaddow-ban criticism and alternate views? Yes, if that's what you mean. We have a trust problem because there are people in power who are not trustworthy…

From the article:

> Trust in social media and traditional media is at an all-time low.

Yeah, some of it is "people in power". And some isn't. But when you say

> Yes, if that's what you mean.

you sure look like you're trying to ignore what the article actually says, and twist the general idea to fit the axe you want to grind. That kind of stunt is (part of) why trust in society is low.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#29

Post by geekpowa »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #3

The problem is the government and traditional media have been caught lying again and again. Once that trust is broken I don't know how you rebuild it. Hell people I commonly talk to still believe a police officer was beaten to death on 1/6 and that people, other then the women shot for trying to enter the chambers, died directly due to the riot. All because of that what the news reported and quietly fixed days later…

I search "Jan 6 Deaths" and very first hit is this NYT article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol...

The article contradicts your claim "reported and quietly fixed days later without ever really owning up to it". Firstly it is the first hit so hardly quiet. Secondly it outlines that initial reporting of Sicknick's death was simply reporting what capital police said, later revised by medical examiner. All front and center in this article.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#30

Post by SQueeeeeL »

ziroshima wrote: post #4

No doubt, these censors and would-be censors have the best of intentions. But you've really got your head up your own ass if you convince yourself that you are protecting people by deciding the information that is appropriate for them to be exposed to. I just don't understand the shortsightedness, the naivete, or the willingness to discard the principle of free speech.

>that is appropriate for them to be exposed to.

Once the idea of dangerous speech becomes aknowledged, censorship just becomes a game of degrees.

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