Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

ntdca.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 1001 posts

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#691

Post by bonzini »

timr wrote: post #674
bonzini wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

> However, we have a 30/70 split in number of covid hospitalizations, with 30 being vaccinated people, in countries where the split in the normal population is 90/10. This means that despite some unvaccinated people having had prior infection the vaccine reduces hospitalizations by 20x. Given this data the most effective strategy is to just vaccinate everyone without what is effectively a pointless distinction No. Th…

I did not say that prior infection does not reduce severe outcome. It does but _it does not change the fact_ that the severe outcomes are much more rare among vaccinated people. This means that there are still too few people with prior infection, for this to be an important factor in policy making. It will be once the proportion of unvaccinated people in hospitals starts to resemble the proportion in the general population.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#692

Post by Fomite »

skillpass wrote: post #303
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I agree - I am worried about taking hospital capacity claims at face value though. From what I've seen, it was common for hospitals to report being overwhelmed even during flu seasons pre-covid. I wouldn't classify that level of 'overwhelmed' worthy of mandates upon society. I don't doubt that during these periods of time hospital resources are strained in some way, but there's a difference between this routine level…

I work with a lot of clinicians.

Normal flu seasons don't leave them with 1000 yard stares.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#693

Post by dekhn »

walterbell wrote: post #625
ChrisClark wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You rewriting history? The vaccine was never said to be 100% effective. Stop trying to twist reality to face your own political views.

A collection of headlines on vaccine efficacy, https://youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE

pretty much all those quotes are "very effective", which is not really quantitative enough to say that fauci and the media were "wrong".

Is it super important that they are technically wrong on something, anyway? Like, do you think Fauci is going to be cancelled because he said something wrong? I doubt that's going to occur based on his prior messaging.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#694

Post by Melatonic »

mattigames wrote: post #335
rglullis wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarette use kills 480000 people every year in the US alone. 300 billion dollars estimated to be spent per year with treatment of smoking-related illness. I don't want even to look at the numbers of the more critical epidemic on the US: obesity and metabolic diseases. By arguing that "the unvaxxed" are a burden and that they deserve discrimination, you are opening the gates for those arguing that smokers should be f…

Smokers, obese people and metabolic diseases are not filling up hospitales at the unsustainable rate unvaxxed people are; and none of those can be quickly fixed with a pinch in the arm, not even nicotine addiction.

Well that is not true actually - they likely are filling up hospitals quite a bit. The big difference is that smoking, metabolic diseases, car accidents, etc etc are all relatively PREDICTABLE diseases year to year. Our medical system then sizes to be able to deal with these predictable rates of disease.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#695

Post by ipaddr »

bink wrote: post #651
eloff wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also noticed this. I have covid right now. I'm double vaccinated. I was planning to get my booster shot, but now that I've had covid what's the point. It's not likely to increase my immunity and it comes with risks. At some point the government will probably change the definition of fully vaccinated to three shots and then I'll be in that unvaccinated group I usually make fun of. Somebody I know lost their job b…

> It's not likely to increase my immunity and it comes with risks. Can you explain what risks you're referring to here?

Inflammation, memory loss, swollen lymph, chest pains, feeling sicks for months, no energy, trouble breathing.

You thought the vaccines were risk free?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#696

Post by smileysteve »

notch656a wrote: post #412
e40 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do it all the time. You are mandated to get a license to drive a car so that you don't have a higher chance of killing people.

Not on private property you don't need a license. Similarly, a business on private property should be able to dictate a mask or vaccination isn't required. You shouldn't have a right to dictate what kind of consensual conduct happens on private property. In Texas, I can get hammered, drive a car drunk without a license behind a fence 10 feet next to the highway (property-side). And there's not a damn thing you can le…

You give Texas as an example; but important for your example, its government disincentivized and removed the rights from companies, private property, and small local governments to require masks, vaccines, or reduction in capacities.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#697

Post by bonzini »

ipaddr wrote: post #666
bonzini wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

Data has been showing 80/20 vaxed/non vaxed hospitalizations for this new variant. How does that change your worldview?

I would like a source, but still: no need to even ask me, as it's exactly the case I mention in the last paragraph.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#698

Post by dpark »

nsxwolf wrote: post #658
bobbyasdfasdf7 wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Every time you express an attitude like this you cause fewer vaccinations to happen.

Pretty sure at this point none of this affects anyone’s choices because people have chosen “sides” and dug in their heels.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#699

Post by JPKab »

IgorPartola wrote: post #657
nu11ptr wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that it is NOT a pointless distinction, and there is a huge discrepancy between "unvaccinated - prior infection" and "unvaccinated - no infection" cohorts. Countries that track prior infection (there are a few) show this in their data, and if you separate them you will see the "unvaxxed - no infection" get worse and the other much better. If the subject matter were something less politically polarizing I'…

The only people who make getting vaccinated a political matter are those who refuse to get vaccinated. If you look at the data (and not just the convenient headlines) “unvaccinated, prior infection” have a lot higher chance of reinfection and a lot higher chance of a severe outcome than vaccinated. Sure it is still better to be “unvaccinated, prior infection” vs “unvaccinated, no prior infection” but not the same ord…

> Roughly speaking this is the difference between your risk of driving with no seat belt and no air bags (unvaccinated), no seat belt and no air bags but with a bicycle helmet (prior infection), seatbelt (vaccinated), and seatbelt and airbags (vaccinated and boosted).

It's absolutely not the same delta there. Not even close. The relative risk and absolute risk are completely different in magnitude, and unvaccinated cohorts are concentrated in younger, healthier populations with a minimal level of risk.

The most distinguishing characteristic of COVID is it's age-risk gradient. There is LITERALLY a 1000X delta in IFR between the youngest and oldest demographics. The fact that the vaccine policies don't take this into account has resulted in the greatest erosion in trust of public health authorities in history. Your analogy doesn't even take this into account, which further demonstrates the shallow aspect of it.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#700

Post by dpark »

dekhn wrote: post #686
nsxwolf wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time you express an attitude like this you cause fewer vaccinations to happen.

yeah, I think the solution is to give $$ incentives for vaccination and not try to shame people, because shamed people often just double-down on their resistance.

Is there any evidence that this is effective? Who refuses to get vaccinated but decides to do it for $100 or whatever?
Post reply on HN