Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

ntdca.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

651–660 of 1001 posts

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#651

Post by bink »

eloff wrote: post #631
nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

I've also noticed this. I have covid right now. I'm double vaccinated. I was planning to get my booster shot, but now that I've had covid what's the point. It's not likely to increase my immunity and it comes with risks. At some point the government will probably change the definition of fully vaccinated to three shots and then I'll be in that unvaccinated group I usually make fun of. Somebody I know lost their job b…

> It's not likely to increase my immunity and it comes with risks.

Can you explain what risks you're referring to here?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#652

Post by creato »

hatware wrote: post #380
nicoburns wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccine injuries are reported from official sources just the same as covid-related injuries. There’s not a big media buzz around it because the numbers are so small, and everyone knew going in that there would be a small number of adverse reactions.

Were you used to seeing myocarditis and pericarditis in the news regularly before 2019...?

No, and after seeing the rates of cases related to both the vaccine and COVID, it probably should have stayed that way.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#653

Post by baq »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

> it is very unlikely that any evidence or logical arguments will chance their minds

Disagree. Anecdotally a relative dying of Covid traumatizes some (not all) just enough to start questioning their beliefs and get the jab.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#654

Post by dahfizz »

bonzini wrote: post #614
nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

> Because the data shows they don't matter.

Source? Because the CDC says otherwise.

> In the first full week of October, vaccinated New Yorkers with a prior Covid-19 case were 19.8 times less likely to catch the virus than their unvaccinated and uninfected peers, whereas people who were unvaccinated but previously infected were 14.7 times less likely, and vaccinated but uninfected New Yorkers were just 4.5 times less likely.

In other words, natural immunity alone can be up to 5X more protective than the vaccine alone, according to the CDC.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2022/01/19/cdc-prior-c...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#655

Post by nradov »

skillpass wrote: post #303
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I agree - I am worried about taking hospital capacity claims at face value though. From what I've seen, it was common for hospitals to report being overwhelmed even during flu seasons pre-covid. I wouldn't classify that level of 'overwhelmed' worthy of mandates upon society. I don't doubt that during these periods of time hospital resources are strained in some way, but there's a difference between this routine level…

2018: "Hospitals Overwhelmed by Flu Patients Are Treating Them in Tents"

https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patie...

This pandemic has been extremely hard on many healthcare providers. But hospitals in many areas were routinely overwhelmed during winter respiratory virus season in previous years. They dealt with it as best they could, and we didn't impose mandates or restrictions on the rest of society.

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-current-state-omicron/

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#656

Post by orang2tang »

ChrisClark wrote: post #611
walterbell wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the CDC changed the definition of vaccine in Sept 2021, most vaccines were understood to provide sterilizing immunity against infection, not only "protection" against illness/death. Intramuscular/serum vaccines cannot stop respiratory infections, by definition. They are non-sterilizing. Only a nasal/mucosal vaccine or nasal infection can provide sterilizing immunity against a respiratory virus.

You rewriting history? The vaccine was never said to be 100% effective. Stop trying to twist reality to face your own political views.

This is simply a lie and you know it.

"If you're vaccinated, you won't get COVID" - Joe Biden

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#657

Post by IgorPartola »

nu11ptr wrote: post #645
bonzini wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

My point is that it is NOT a pointless distinction, and there is a huge discrepancy between "unvaccinated - prior infection" and "unvaccinated - no infection" cohorts. Countries that track prior infection (there are a few) show this in their data, and if you separate them you will see the "unvaxxed - no infection" get worse and the other much better. If the subject matter were something less politically polarizing I'…

The only people who make getting vaccinated a political matter are those who refuse to get vaccinated. If you look at the data (and not just the convenient headlines) “unvaccinated, prior infection” have a lot higher chance of reinfection and a lot higher chance of a severe outcome than vaccinated. Sure it is still better to be “unvaccinated, prior infection” vs “unvaccinated, no prior infection” but not the same order of magnitude as “vaccinated and boosted”.

Roughly speaking this is the difference between your risk of driving with no seat belt and no air bags (unvaccinated), no seat belt and no air bags but with a bicycle helmet (prior infection), seatbelt (vaccinated), and seatbelt and airbags (vaccinated and boosted).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#658

Post by nsxwolf »

bobbyasdfasdf7 wrote: post #637
nu11ptr wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

Quoted post unavailable.

Every time you express an attitude like this you cause fewer vaccinations to happen.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#659

Post by dahfizz »

ChrisClark wrote: post #609
ravar wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this is sarcasm

If you were infected with the original strain, you'd have had less immunity to Delta than if you were vaccinated. The exact same thing for Delta vs Omicron. The mRNA vaccines give a broader immunization that covers more. That's not even up for debate, you're only pretending it is. I hope your comment is sarcasm.

Source? Because the CDC disagrees https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2022/01/19/cdc-prior-c...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#660

Post by onefuncman »

walterbell wrote: post #591
ChrisClark wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the vaccine protects so much better than just a previous infection. We've been over this, over, and over. But you just won't accept the numbers now will you?

Until the CDC changed the definition of vaccine in Sept 2021, most vaccines were understood to provide sterilizing immunity against infection, not only "protection" against illness/death. Intramuscular/serum vaccines cannot stop respiratory infections, by definition. They are non-sterilizing. Only a nasal/mucosal vaccine or nasal infection can provide sterilizing immunity against a respiratory virus.

This didn't happen all of a sudden in Sept 2021. The flu vaccine has always been about harm reduction and began seeing widespread civilian use in 2007-2008.
Post reply on HN