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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#561

Post by spookthesunset »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #142
rajup wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but what do you propose though? The vaccinated still spread COVID granted at a lesser rate. A permanent mask mandate? COVID is not going away.

Then we should adapt to it in ways that preserve life? Cholera didn't go away either we just have sewers and wash our hands a lot now. I'm not a medical or public health expert, it's not up to me to figure it out. But to start with, the idea that you can be "done" because you've already done "enough" and experienced inconvenience and made sacrifices needs to go. People need more from each other still, sorry!

> I'm not a medical or public health expert, it's not up to me to figure it out.

Those people don't have the right to tell you what to do. They are not politicians and they aren't elected. They can tell me to wear a mask for the rest of my life, but it is my right to say "nope".

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#562

Post by cletus »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I agree.

My sense is the government has silently taken this stance and that hospitals aren't at risk of collapse like they were a year or more ago. I also get the feeling the vaccinated have given up on the unvaccinated too just based on how rarely I now see posts on social media. It's like a tacit acceptance that if people are going to choose to die, so be it.

I actually wonder if this not caring is what will actually defuse this particular anti-vaxx movement. Or it'll just be the next vaccine and the Covid vaccine issues will be completely forgotten. I mean when was the last time you heard about vaccines causing autism?

what's interesting here is the underlying psychology that makes people susceptible to manipulation by thinking they're in the know on some Big Lie. This seems to be nothing new however and I can't help but think of this quote from Goebbels of all people [1]:

> “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

[1]: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-on-the-...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#563

Post by coryfklein »

joshuamorton wrote: post #416
enchiridion wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It definitely is, but they’re addressing it from the wrong end. If the pandemic could be fixed by the government managing individual behavior we’d be done with it by now. Instead the government should be focused on expanding highly covid specific care capacity. That is by far a better way to spend the covid relief money than distributing it to sustain a nebulous lockdown. As far as I understand from talking with doct…

> Instead the government should be focused on expanding highly covid specific care capacity. That is by far a better way to spend the covid relief money than distributing it to sustain a nebulous lockdown. This is not something the government can do. It's not something anyone can do. What you're asking for (though you may not know it) is for their to suddenly be more nurses and medical practitioners. That's not a thi…

> You need a decade to actually functionally increase the supply of nurses and specialists.

Similar things were said for the vaccine.

There is so much gatekeeping in the medical community that is not totally necessary. A doctor or nurse that immigrates to the US from a different country which has better health care than we do cannot practice were without jumping through tons of hoops. That is a pretty straightforward way the government – in a state of national emergency mind you! – could instantly and functionally increase the supply of nurses and specialists.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#564

Post by reducesuffering »

tehjoker wrote: post #422

This guy said amid declining cases. What decline??

The decline seen when looking at case counts in the US. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us

7 day average is in decline, from a high of 800k daily cases to the current 600k cases.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#565

Post by lelandfe »

password321 wrote: post #518
beams_of_light wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eradication is not the goal. Making sure hospitals aren't overwhelmed with COVID patients is the goal. Catching COVID is potentially dangerous and often times results in long recovery window. Vaccination is harmless and works. The thread will never subside; this is a new virus we will have to live with for the rest of our lives - especially considering we can't seem to get everyone to do the right thing, even with go…

>Vaccination is harmless Tell that to the increasing number of footballers facing cardiac arrest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballer...

As far as I’m aware, you’re spreading a rumor by claiming there’s a link.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2SL1NJ

> FIFA is not aware of a rise in episodes of cardiac arrests… and no cases have been flagged in relation to individuals receiving a COVID vaccine.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#566

Post by mulletbum »

eggy wrote: post #327
smnrchrds wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also why many governments do not accept proof of recovery in lieu of proof of vaccination. Those who do have vaccine-skeptic people catching the virus intentionally and risking death. https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-c...

So there playing the I am ignoring it or lying about it for your benefit card like Fauci about masks early on? It was a while ago that the CDC estimated recovered COVID numbers to bre around 146 million. It is more like over 200 million at this point with overlap of vaccinated people. I am sick of being ignored of having recovered, and people making the excuse that if they let us know how good natural immunity is, or…

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#567

Post by jatone »

rhino369 wrote: post #497
jatone wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have discrimination in medical care its called 'triage', unfortunately it doesn't involved removing care once granted. We also charge smokers more for health care due to the burden they put on the system, yet another form of discrimination. You're also making the naive mistake of relating a stable system (smokers with health issues) with an unstable system (covid patients). These two types of systems have…

>We already have discrimination in medical care its called 'triage', unfortunately it doesn't involved removing care once granted. Based on seriousness of the case, not really on whether it was preventable in the first place. For extremely limited resources like organs there is consideration of future risks, but that isn't really the same thing. >We also charge smokers more for health care due to the burden they put…

> Based on seriousness of the case,....

incorrect its based on likely hood of survival. no point in wasting resources on a soon to be dead individual when you can save someone who actually has a chance.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#568

Post by roenxi »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I've never heard a convincing argument about why the COVID restrictions weren't literal violations of human rights. Often I got a variant of "I'm scared we're just going to do it". Most (all?) of the arguments for it turned out to be wrong - eg, vaccination has not slowed the spread, even marginally, according to the experience in Australia where COVID tore through a highly vaccinated population. In my state (~95% adults 12+ vaccinated) we have had more than a million cases (population 8 million) in 1.5 months. And the testing systems collapsed, probably quite a bit more in reality.

This is now taking it one step further - this argument is as an assumption - suggesting people have to give up their freedoms because people paying for their own hospital capacity is unacceptable to you. I say that because the sort of person who is pro-freedom to the point of not wanting a vaccine might well overlap with the population of people pro-freedom enough that they want individuals to pay for their own healthcare.

This is not a sustainable position against 2019 business-as-usual. I agree with the headline.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#569

Post by ectopod »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #511
sib301 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

Coming from the UK and Italy - 3 hours is nothing. If you're about to die they'll send you to emergency, otherwise you'll have to wait hours. If you're unhappy, pay for a private insurance and get decent service. Actually I had to go to the hospital (not covid) and it was almost deserted with reception coming to check the desk they were supposed to be attending half an hour after we were supposed to be there. People…

Where can you find a private A&E in the UK?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#570

Post by coryfklein »

jrockway wrote: post #233
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I wanted to comment a little on the "choice" thing. I'm not sure that every person who is unvaccinated chose that. I had to try very hard to get my three doses. For the first series, I had to go to a faraway FEMA-run site. For the booster, I scheduled three appointments with CVS; the first two times, they canceled my appointment on the walk over (I made the first like 3 weeks in advance, and they canceled with 10 min…

How long ago was that? I have to think the situation today is quite different from when the major vaccines were approved months ago, but I could be wrong.
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