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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#521

Post by TameAntelope »

hhh wrote: post #508
TameAntelope wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the fact that it's red tribe coded, it's the fact that the arguments against these things started from very stupid places. Mask and vaccine resistance is stupid tribe coded, even if now there might be some valid reasons for talking about it. Stupid tribe and red tribe do happen to overlap, but it's the stupid part that upsets people so universally, not the red part. Also, HIV is not even remotely as contagio…

I really don’t see how you could reasonably talk with someone that isn’t vaccinated and convince them to get vaccinated by calling them stupid. It’s demeaning and completely dismissive of their apprehensions, fears, or any other reason they haven’t been vaccinated. I would likely find myself much more reluctant to get vaccinated if the person attempting to convince me is calling me an idiot and just shouting that i’m…

Who said anything about convincing people? I'm explaining why it's a challenge to consider a position that may be more valid now, but wasn't valid or was substantially less valid in the past.

It was an abjectly stupid position, held by stupid people. Now, it's possible that the situation has changed and it's marginally less stupid of a position, or even not a stupid position at all, given new information.

It's hard for people to make that switch.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#522

Post by dont__panic »

zzzeek wrote: post #23

So he was referring to the "east coast". In New York State where I live, we have 95% first-dose vaccination status for adults and 73% for complete vaccine series ( https://twitter.com/GovKathyHochul/status/148608338468219289... ) . so here, continued vaccine mandates won't have much additional effect. However, I would venture to say a whole lot of that 95% has been vaccinated *because* of the mandates that were tempo…

Keep in mind that NYC is a massive tourist destination -- I'm happy to keep vaccine mandates around if it keeps unvaccinated tourists from hopping in an uber, into a long airport line, eating food in a cramped indoor airport cafeteria, hopping on a plane, into another uber... and then to the table right next to me. At least get a vaccine before you do that.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#523

Post by Karunamon »

sofixa wrote: post #187
tjr225 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is going to sound conspiratorial but I think you’d have to be pretty naive to accept the reported deaths in the US due to Covid to be that accurate. Hospitals(which in the US are for profit mind you) were quite literally given more money for reporting a death as a Covid death for a period of time. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Actually you could say it’s difficult to trus…

You can use excess deaths then, those numbers are even higher. And even if official Covid numbers are inflated, even tenfold, it's still a disease that resulted in a lot of death.

A non trivial portion of excess deaths can be laid at the feet of the response to the virus, not necessarily the virus itself.

This would include the things like firing healthcare workers, leading to other problems being undiagnosed, and worsening instead of being treated. I would also include lockdowns and mask mandates as being responsible for increased amounts of depression, which has a known poor impact on survival over time, and that's not just counting suicide.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#524

Post by jwagenet »

maskil wrote: post #512
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Done with Covid? Are you aware that vaccines are failing spectacularly with regards to Omicron infection? Hospitalizations are another story, but this notion of the vaccines ending Covid is just not holding up with new variants.

What? I thought it has been pretty clear that even with Omicron, the vaccine dramatically reduces risk. In WA, the unvaccinated are 2-4x more likely to get covid and 5-11x more likely to be hospitalized.

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#525

Post by rhino369 »

bhouston wrote: post #17
msoad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why you care if others get the vaccine if it does not stop the spread and new mutations as we saw with the recent variants I’m fully boosted etc. I don’t think it’s fair to compare it to Polio

It greatly reduces deaths, which is the point of a vaccine: https://twitter.com/OurWorldInData/status/148607668061993779...

It's a point of a vaccine, but they usually do a really good job of reducing transmission too.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#526

Post by ashwagary »

jlack wrote: post #449
jjoonathan wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to worry about getting HIV every time I go out in public just because some jerk decided he has a god-given right to breathe viral particles into my lungs even though a simple and safe vaccine is readily available.

This makes no sense. It's incredibly clear at this point that vaccinated people with covid spread it just the same as an unvaccinated person with covid.

My understanding, from a study that may be outdated by now, is the window to spread covid is slightly bigger in the unvaccinated, but not by much.

1-3 days of additional self-quarantine solves this issue.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#527

Post by pedrosorio »

scohesc wrote: post #193
pedrosorio wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders? Unless regulations across the world have changed drastically in the last couple of weeks, this is just false.

If you're Canadian, you're not allowed to leave the country if you're not vaccinated. https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domest... - the part specifically about "You need to be vaccinated to travel in and out of Canada" They've made it a requirement to be vaccinated to use any form of federally regulated transportation - plane, train, boat - personal vehicles are the last option, but good luck tryi…

Thanks for the info, but nothing in the thread I was responding to gave me the impression the GP was referring exclusively to Canada when they said:

“How is the virus crossing oceans so quickly if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders?”

> but good luck trying to drive on the pacific ocean since you're not allowed to enter the US unvaccinated either AFAIK

Until 5 days ago you could: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandramacgregor/2022/01/24/cana...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#528

Post by nicoburns »

notch656a wrote: post #412
e40 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do it all the time. You are mandated to get a license to drive a car so that you don't have a higher chance of killing people.

Not on private property you don't need a license. Similarly, a business on private property should be able to dictate a mask or vaccination isn't required. You shouldn't have a right to dictate what kind of consensual conduct happens on private property. In Texas, I can get hammered, drive a car drunk without a license behind a fence 10 feet next to the highway (property-side). And there's not a damn thing you can le…

> The suggested (stricken) OSHA mandates were basically forcing non-consensual penetration, or lose your job.

Is that really so different? If you need to drive for your job and try to do so without a licence you'll lose your job too. Conversely, if you're in your own home then nobody is going to make you wear a mask (well certainly not the government anyway).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#529

Post by vel0city »

depereo wrote: post #438
zrail wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did any hospital use queue management software to adjust pricing as a mechanism for demand throttling, due to limited capacity in 2020-2021 No one shops for healthcare in the US based on price, for three reasons. First, prices are unknowable in advance. Second, if you have insurance the insurance will fulfill their end of the bargain if you need to be admitted (i.e. they will pay as agreed upon in the insurance con…

Isn't there a new law, partially rolled out, that requires US hospitals to disclose the cost for a procedure or treatment in advance?

They're required to publish their prices, which results in giant PDF documents with thousands of different charge codes and prices. Its almost incomprehensible to analyze unless you're in healthcare billing. Plus, you'd need to know what services/medications/equipment you'll need before you even get to the hospital, which is pretty dang tricky unless you're a doctor yourself.

I was recently in the hospital for abdominal issues. How would I know what drugs they would give me? How would I know if they were going to give me some kind of scan? If they were going to give me a scan, are they going to use a portable machine or use a stationary machine? Are they going to need to use some kind of endoscopic scope? Will I need other things to assist with those scans (sedatives, contrast materials, etc)? Which blood work tests is the doctor going to order? Which urine tests is the doctor going to order? Are they going to order stool samples? How many samples are they going to need, how many times are they going to need to re-run tests? What if I get there and determine I need surgery? How should I have known I needed that ahead of time? What kind of surgery is it going to be? What drugs are involved in that?

Its not like you can walk up and see a board that says "INTESTIONAL DISTRESS -- $175"

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#530

Post by cogman10 »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #511
sib301 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

Coming from the UK and Italy - 3 hours is nothing. If you're about to die they'll send you to emergency, otherwise you'll have to wait hours. If you're unhappy, pay for a private insurance and get decent service. Actually I had to go to the hospital (not covid) and it was almost deserted with reception coming to check the desk they were supposed to be attending half an hour after we were supposed to be there. People…

IDK if it's gotten worse, but circa 2004->2006, my experiences with the NHS were nothing but pleasant. I mostly dealt with northern hospitals and GPs, but it was pretty much in and out. Appointments didn't take long, we were in and out in almost all cases.
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