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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#441

Post by [deleted] »

tinus_hn wrote: post #132
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

These days you have to add ‘eligible for booster and chose not to get it’, ‘got booster shot’ and ‘not eligible yet for booster shot’. In the Netherlands we started the booster campaign on November 18, but we get graphs claiming ‘hardly any people with boosters in hospital!’ with the data including hospitalizations from November 19 onwards.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#442

Post by abduhl »

d12345m wrote: post #415
rglullis wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then go charge more for those who are at risk and reject the recommendation for vaccine. I'd argue that would be a lot more effective (and fair) to get people to vaccinate then any of the current sociopolitical pressure and ostracization.

I’ve wondered why increased healthcare premiums for unvaccinated persons isn’t a tool we’re using. I’m assuming it’s a bad idea for reasons that I haven’t thought through; I’d love to hear them from anyone who has spent time on the issue.

They're illegal because of Obamacare, I believe. My understanding is that smoking is the only pre-existing medical condition that can be used to discriminate.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#443

Post by abduhl »

depereo wrote: post #438
zrail wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did any hospital use queue management software to adjust pricing as a mechanism for demand throttling, due to limited capacity in 2020-2021 No one shops for healthcare in the US based on price, for three reasons. First, prices are unknowable in advance. Second, if you have insurance the insurance will fulfill their end of the bargain if you need to be admitted (i.e. they will pay as agreed upon in the insurance con…

Isn't there a new law, partially rolled out, that requires US hospitals to disclose the cost for a procedure or treatment in advance?

Hospitals don't comply with it. What is the government going to do, shut them down or fine them into closing during a pandemic?

Private companies have coopted the power over our government during this pandemic, and we have gladly given it to them in fear.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#444

Post by jjoonathan »

scarmig wrote: post #388
res0nat0r wrote: post #347

Good article here about "endemic" and the still large problems that portend: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00155-x > The word ‘endemic’ has become one of the most misused of the pandemic. And many of the errant assumptions made encourage a misplaced complacency. It doesn’t mean that COVID-19 will come to a natural end. > In other words, a disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria kil…

Something can be endemic and deadly and still something we accept the consequences of without government imposed restrictions. For example: HIV is something that is now endemic and (still) deadly. And yet we don't go around forcibly shutting down gay bathhouses, bars, and Grindr and implementing condom and prep mandates, even though they would be effective at reducing its spread. And for good reason: it'd be a massiv…

I don't have to worry about getting HIV every time I go out in public just because some jerk decided he has a god-given right to breathe viral particles into my lungs even though a simple and safe vaccine is readily available.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#445

Post by walterbell »

daveguy wrote: post #411
walterbell wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the contrary, #3 includes everyone receiving a booster, because immune system suppression/DoS immediately after a vaccine makes it the period of highest risk for both infection (from Covid or anything else) and vaccine injury. If we don't have separate reporting for #3, those negative effects will be attributed to #4. How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax?

> How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax? I didn't know that. What's the source for that medical advice?

Jul 2021 in the context of myocarditis risk for men, https://www.leisureopportunities.co.uk/news/Should-people-av...

> The government of Singapore has become the first to recommend that people who've received the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine should avoid strenuous physical activity after getting their shots, something of urgent importance to gym operators as vaccine programmes continue to roll out around the world.

Transient blood clots, lymphocytopenia, similar to a Covid infection: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29216083

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#446

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

mplewis wrote: post #401
RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herd immunity is for the herd. The US is where it is because we have individuals willing to fight for individual rights. If casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality in this country then I say let it be. The vaccinated are protected and therefore you are safe (assuming you are vaccinated). So why do you need to proselytize your doctrine on those around you? You're allowed your own opinions, chant your…

Quoted post unavailable.

> > casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality

>

> This attitude disgusts me. Be better.

You've said absolutely nothing. The entire response was to condescend.

Many have died when people look downwards on others with disgust towards them without rationale. Just look at what hitler did to the rats he held power over. Its truly astounding narcissism to think oneself so much greater than another individual.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#447

Post by ifyoubuildit »

srcreigh wrote: post #393
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This response is actually an example of what I'm talking about. The comment that I replied to was explaining how the segment of the population that is a candidate for giving themselves covid while being high risk is (and has been) shrinking out of existence. Meanwhile, there is a much larger (and growing) cohort that continues to be harrased if they (fairly) decide they don't need these vaccines, and the harrasment i…

Why doesn't someone make the point that 95%+ (or 98%+ etc) of Americans are protected via natural immunity or vaccines and back it up with data? Once that point is made, the discouraging natural immunity argument can stop because hospitals can't overfill anymore. However until that point can be made[0] I think the "don't encourage natural immunity" position will prevent the most deaths. By the way, I also don't condo…

I attempted to make an argument like that 2 weeks ago.

I was using an estimate of 120m instead of the 146 that you quoted. And I'm just a dummy on the internet, so I'm probably at least a little wrong. But the gist was that if you could jab everyone tomorrow (which you can't), you might get a little bit of a benefit in the stats, but politically you'd be dead

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29914681

There's no reason hospitals can't still fill up anyway if you have enough volume.

EDIT: I should mention that I really appreciate what you said above:

> By the way, I also don't condone harassment of unvaccinated people or vaccination as a requirement for employment etc either. Those are separate issues to me.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#448

Post by blain »

mgh2 wrote: post #216
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

> I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice".

I don't understand this argument. Maybe I'm being ignorant or childish but since when do we live in a world that as a person you have to be responsible for "fellow citizens".

Don't get me wrong I don't mean we shouldn't be nice or care about other people but no one owe me anything and I don't owe anybody anything. Don't we all learn that in life at some point?

I get the COVID is dangerous and vaccines help but don't put me responsible for you.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#449

Post by jlack »

jjoonathan wrote: post #444
scarmig wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something can be endemic and deadly and still something we accept the consequences of without government imposed restrictions. For example: HIV is something that is now endemic and (still) deadly. And yet we don't go around forcibly shutting down gay bathhouses, bars, and Grindr and implementing condom and prep mandates, even though they would be effective at reducing its spread. And for good reason: it'd be a massiv…

I don't have to worry about getting HIV every time I go out in public just because some jerk decided he has a god-given right to breathe viral particles into my lungs even though a simple and safe vaccine is readily available.

This makes no sense. It's incredibly clear at this point that vaccinated people with covid spread it just the same as an unvaccinated person with covid.
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