Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#411

Post by daveguy » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #124

xadhominemx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, “3” represents a tiny fraction of the population so isn’t even really worth breaking out

To the contrary, #3 includes everyone receiving a booster, because immune system suppression/DoS immediately after a vaccine makes it the period of highest risk for both infection (from Covid or anything else) and vaccine injury. If we don't have separate reporting for #3, those negative effects will be attributed to #4. How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax?

> How many people know they should minimize physical exertion and crowds for 14 days post-vax?

I didn't know that. What's the source for that medical advice?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#412

Post by notch656a » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #395

laurent92 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t owe you the right to live with a deadly disease. You cannot mandate others to perform actions just so you can live, if you wouldn’t live naturally.

We do it all the time. You are mandated to get a license to drive a car so that you don't have a higher chance of killing people.

Not on private property you don't need a license. Similarly, a business on private property should be able to dictate a mask or vaccination isn't required. You shouldn't have a right to dictate what kind of consensual conduct happens on private property.

In Texas, I can get hammered, drive a car drunk without a license behind a fence 10 feet next to the highway (property-side). And there's not a damn thing you can legally do about it, despite any fears I may plow through that fence. The suggested (stricken) OSHA mandates were basically forcing non-consensual penetration, or lose your job.

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>That's not totally true. This Texas-based DWI defense attorney says:

You conveniently skipped the top of the page where it explicitly says DWI in Texas must occur in public (a fenced in private property is almost never considered public). Sure a cop can probably find a reason to arrest you no matter what you're doing, if they want to.

>Obviously you should be able to be unvaccinated only on private property then...

Most businesses are on private property. Given that the fourth amendment protects us from handing over documents except on subpeona/court order or probable cause of crime (a few states do compel revealing your identity, although you don't have to reveal your age if the crime is age-related such as alcohol violation), and you can't tell by looking at someone if they're vaccinated, it would essentially be meaningless to make it a crime to be unvaccinated while walking to work for instance. Controlling vaccination is far easier on private property, where you have no freedom to travel and can thus be stopped and checked before entering.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#413

Post by depereo » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #388

res0nat0r wrote: post #347

Good article here about "endemic" and the still large problems that portend: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00155-x > The word ‘endemic’ has become one of the most misused of the pandemic. And many of the errant assumptions made encourage a misplaced complacency. It doesn’t mean that COVID-19 will come to a natural end. > In other words, a disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria kil…

Something can be endemic and deadly and still something we accept the consequences of without government imposed restrictions. For example: HIV is something that is now endemic and (still) deadly. And yet we don't go around forcibly shutting down gay bathhouses, bars, and Grindr and implementing condom and prep mandates, even though they would be effective at reducing its spread. And for good reason: it'd be a massiv…

But we do strongly encourage condom usage and tests. There are education resources and awareness campaigns. Knowingly infecting someone or non disclosure of positive infection status during possible transmission activities is a jailable offense. It's not like HIV is something we simply ignore. There are still strong public health measures and laws protecting the public health.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#414

Post by loudtieblahblah » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #257

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

Yeah all those Oklahoma gunshot victims can't be seen by the ER.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/moral-majority-media-strikes-a...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#415

Post by d12345m » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #358

jatone wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have discrimination in medical care its called 'triage', unfortunately it doesn't involved removing care once granted. We also charge smokers more for health care due to the burden they put on the system, yet another form of discrimination. You're also making the naive mistake of relating a stable system (smokers with health issues) with an unstable system (covid patients). These two types of systems have…

Then go charge more for those who are at risk and reject the recommendation for vaccine. I'd argue that would be a lot more effective (and fair) to get people to vaccinate then any of the current sociopolitical pressure and ostracization.

I’ve wondered why increased healthcare premiums for unvaccinated persons isn’t a tool we’re using.

I’m assuming it’s a bad idea for reasons that I haven’t thought through; I’d love to hear them from anyone who has spent time on the issue.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#416

Post by joshuamorton » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

enchiridion wrote: post #367

Nbox9 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to know that if I have a heart attack or get hit by a bus then I’ll have access to top quality healthcare —- not burnt out understaffed hospitals. Sharing limited resources is a major role of the government, and managing hospital capacity seems to fall under “promote general welfare” to me. My $0.02

It definitely is, but they’re addressing it from the wrong end. If the pandemic could be fixed by the government managing individual behavior we’d be done with it by now. Instead the government should be focused on expanding highly covid specific care capacity. That is by far a better way to spend the covid relief money than distributing it to sustain a nebulous lockdown. As far as I understand from talking with doct…

> Instead the government should be focused on expanding highly covid specific care capacity. That is by far a better way to spend the covid relief money than distributing it to sustain a nebulous lockdown.

This is not something the government can do. It's not something anyone can do. What you're asking for (though you may not know it) is for their to suddenly be more nurses and medical practitioners. That's not a thing that can just suddenly happen, or even happen with 2-3 years of prep. You need a decade to actually functionally increase the supply of nurses and specialists.

Now there are lots of short term fixes the government has done, such as activating the national guard in locations (to reduce non-medical load on nurses) and hospitals can pause elective services to free up space and time, but that has huge downsides since it means people get life saving nonemergency surgeries like cancer removal.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#417

Post by oceanplexian » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #388

res0nat0r wrote: post #347

Good article here about "endemic" and the still large problems that portend: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00155-x > The word ‘endemic’ has become one of the most misused of the pandemic. And many of the errant assumptions made encourage a misplaced complacency. It doesn’t mean that COVID-19 will come to a natural end. > In other words, a disease can be endemic and both widespread and deadly. Malaria kil…

Something can be endemic and deadly and still something we accept the consequences of without government imposed restrictions. For example: HIV is something that is now endemic and (still) deadly. And yet we don't go around forcibly shutting down gay bathhouses, bars, and Grindr and implementing condom and prep mandates, even though they would be effective at reducing its spread. And for good reason: it'd be a massiv…

So we did do that, and there is a bit of irony there. Back in the 80s AIDS was used to push homophobia and lots of states passed laws making promoting homosexuality illegal. At the time Dr.Fauci went on national television to tell the public you could get AIDS simply by touching or being in proximity to someone who had the virus. So if you want to talk about moralizing science, well actually…

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#418

Post by pessimizer » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #74

sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

I cannot recall another example in my lifetime of a global populous all agreeing to purchase a pharmaceutical company's medical product - not just once, but 2-3x per person - in under two years' time. The implications of this phenomenon on Pfizer's business model are enormous. Pfizer & others would be foolish to not pay close attention to this and figure out a way to exploit it for further gains.

Pfizer probably got an extra $50 for you this particular year, in addition to the hundreds or thousands of dollars it gets from you every year. If you want to attack drug pricing, drug patents and pharma profits, the time to do that is every year, not just special ones.

The big question for this vaccine is why we rewarded this fully taxpayer-funded development and testing with a patent monopoly.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#419

Post by sunsunsunsun » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

mplewis wrote: post #401

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herd immunity is for the herd. The US is where it is because we have individuals willing to fight for individual rights. If casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality in this country then I say let it be. The vaccinated are protected and therefore you are safe (assuming you are vaccinated). So why do you need to proselytize your doctrine on those around you? You're allowed your own opinions, chant your…

Quoted post unavailable.

Individuality at the expense of human life. Seems very selfish, especially when preventative measures are so simple.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#420

Post by jbd28 » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

soperj wrote: post #298

peter422 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s literally a miracle drug for a virus that is killing thousands of people a day, that likely will work for all variants. Can you stop complaining for one second about the price and acknowledge that it is amazing that they invented it?

Oddest part about it is that they invented it in 2018.

What's your source on that little nugget