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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#371

Post by Enginerrrd »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #354
theandrewbailey wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions. Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine wa…

Are you opposed to laws mandating seatbelts or criminalizing heroine?

Not OP, but I am. I don't mind laws mandating that cars HAVE seatbelts. But I think it's your choice if you want to wear them.

With Heroin, I'm not sure criminalization really had much affect at all on the percentage of heroin addicts. And I'd bet that it had less effect than the rate of prescriptions for synthetic opiates did.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#372

Post by ifyoubuildit »

srcreigh wrote: post #257
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

This response is actually an example of what I'm talking about.

The comment that I replied to was explaining how the segment of the population that is a candidate for giving themselves covid while being high risk is (and has been) shrinking out of existence.

Meanwhile, there is a much larger (and growing) cohort that continues to be harrased if they (fairly) decide they don't need these vaccines, and the harrasment is justified by claims like yours.

Even the CDC has finally come around and published data along these lines (despite numerous studies suggesting the same starting from early last year). But after bullshitting people for so long, I guess we just have to expect there will be a ton of inertia behind the idea that every human needs these vaccines, no matter what.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#373

Post by lowercased »

sib301 wrote: post #363
skillpass wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - I am worried about taking hospital capacity claims at face value though. From what I've seen, it was common for hospitals to report being overwhelmed even during flu seasons pre-covid. I wouldn't classify that level of 'overwhelmed' worthy of mandates upon society. I don't doubt that during these periods of time hospital resources are strained in some way, but there's a difference between this routine level…

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

My mom had to wait for ~ 5 hrs in ER waiting room in relatively severe pain. Was another 8-9 hours 'inside' just to be sent home. Years ago she'd had been admitted and stayed overnight to be on the safe side (older adult, known health issues, etc) but ... no room, over capacity, stretched way too thin.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#374

Post by e40 »

pengaru wrote: post #315
tharne wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. Source?

Myocarditis and "long covid-like" side effects have both been widely reported... Just search in this page for "vaccin": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myocarditis Full disclosure: I'm vaccinated, am pro-vaxx, but every choice has risks.

And myocarditis is caused by the COVID virus. Search for that on the same page.

I would imagine that it's highly likely that people who get myocarditis from the vaccine would have gotten myocarditis from the virus. Certainly more than the general population.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#375

Post by enchiridion »

vanusa wrote: post #365
theandrewbailey wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions. Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine wa…

Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. So is letting people die from otherwise treatable injuries and infections so someone else can enjoy their "freedom" to ... you know what I'm driving at.

Yes, exactly. The world is dangerous and full of risks.

Freedom is literally worth sacrificing lives for. This is a fundamental founding idea of the US.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#376

Post by rory »

GavinMcG wrote: post #291
akomtu wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

Not really. Various groups may disproportionately take up health resources, but the risk we're talking about is acutely overwhelming health systems.

This is definitely the most pressing issue, but shouldn't we also, as a society, build the ability to e.g. double ICU capacity when needed? We're not talking about 100x here.

As much as I support vaccination, it feels like gaps in vaccination are also used as an excuse to blow off repairing an extremely fragile public health system. We've had two years at this point.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#377

Post by walterbell »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #364
theandrewbailey wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the answer to that should be determined by the hospital capacity. If a region has sufficient hospital capacity that it would not be overwhelmed by the increase in COVID cases among the unvaccinated go ahead and lift most restrictions. Having anyone's freedoms dependent on available hospital capacity is a terrible way to run a society. Note that these freedoms were debated and won in an era where medicine wa…

Especially since hospital capacity is induced scarcity due to government regulation and the AMA.

Or firing doctors and nurses who recovered from Covid and declined vaccination.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#378

Post by akomtu »

mattigames wrote: post #335
rglullis wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarette use kills 480000 people every year in the US alone. 300 billion dollars estimated to be spent per year with treatment of smoking-related illness. I don't want even to look at the numbers of the more critical epidemic on the US: obesity and metabolic diseases. By arguing that "the unvaxxed" are a burden and that they deserve discrimination, you are opening the gates for those arguing that smokers should be f…

Smokers, obese people and metabolic diseases are not filling up hospitales at the unsustainable rate unvaxxed people are; and none of those can be quickly fixed with a pinch in the arm, not even nicotine addiction.

Actually, they do. It's not the young unvaxxed athletes who end up in ICUs, it's those people with obesity and other comorbidities who fill up hospitals.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#379

Post by brohoolio »

parkingrift wrote: post #269
donohoe wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

>Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. They don't protect society at all. The herd immunity goal flew out the window with Delta and left the galaxy with Omicron. We will not ever eradicate Covid-19 with vaccination. >It ends when the the threat subsides. It should end right now, then. The threat has subsided. We have vaccines and other treatment pro…

Hospitals are full here. It’s impacting everyone who gets sick or needs emergency care. Not over yet.

I’d say it’s over when Paxlovid is available widely whenever folks catch it, which should be in a couple months.

Pazlovid reduces risk of death or hospitalization by 90%. Basically turns an unvaccinated into a vaccinated person in terms of outcomes.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#380

Post by hatware »

nicoburns wrote: post #306
hatware wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention all of the vaccine injuries that do exist but are rarely reported on. It's almost like there's a narrative here.

Vaccine injuries are reported from official sources just the same as covid-related injuries. There’s not a big media buzz around it because the numbers are so small, and everyone knew going in that there would be a small number of adverse reactions.

Were you used to seeing myocarditis and pericarditis in the news regularly before 2019...?
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