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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#281

Post by lmkg »

jrockway wrote: post #233
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I wanted to comment a little on the "choice" thing. I'm not sure that every person who is unvaccinated chose that. I had to try very hard to get my three doses. For the first series, I had to go to a faraway FEMA-run site. For the booster, I scheduled three appointments with CVS; the first two times, they canceled my appointment on the walk over (I made the first like 3 weeks in advance, and they canceled with 10 min…

Access is also a larger issue in under-served populations. I'm fortunate enough, as probably are many on this site, to be able to just swing by CVS during some downtime while WFH. A person who is paid hourly for an in-person job and reliant on public transportation will have a much harder time.

I wish there were stats on "want to vaccinate, but haven't been able to."

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#282

Post by twofornone »

eli wrote: post #268
twofornone wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand how many assumptions are baked into the current conclusions that vaccines and masks are effective. This relies on accurate reporting of vaccination status and accurate reporting of breakthrough cases. Meanwhile in the real world covid is spreading unabated, record case counts, regardless of vaccination rate or mask compliance. Clearly something isn't adding up. Meanwhile the rosy estimate…

The vaccines are extremely safe and the real world data from shows they protect you from getting covid in the first place (and are much more effective at preventing severe covid). Here's the data from Sen Johnson's state: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-status.htm#ca...

Again, this is based on the assumption that adverse effects are being sufficiently reported and/or attributed to the vaccines.

And once again, the real world data shows that the virus is spreading across the globe at record pace regardless of vaccination rate.

I know it sounds like dangerous conspiracy talk, but sometimes we need to think outside of our official sources. Ultimately it is up to the people to hold our institutions to account. The real world data does not line up with the official claims.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#283

Post by eli »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Given the topic of the post, it's funny you didn't mention one measure that does convince holdouts to get vaccinated: mandates.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/01/22/do-vacci... (https://archive.fo/g2vHF)

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#284

Post by smnrchrds »

srcreigh wrote: post #257
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

That's also why many governments do not accept proof of recovery in lieu of proof of vaccination. Those who do have vaccine-skeptic people catching the virus intentionally and risking death.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-c...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#285

Post by akomtu »

tynpeddler wrote: post #272
tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

The vaxxed and unvaxxed populations both rely on the same medical infrastructure. So when the unvaxxed fill hospitals to recover or die, they are consuming scarce resources that are required by the population at large for other things like birth, cancer, surgery, etc. Sadly, we don't have an ethical way to let all the unvaxxed get covid without impacting the medical system negatively for the rest of us.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#286

Post by crackercrews »

sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

They don't have enough supply yet for this incentive to be in effect. Once they reach the tipping point, look forward to them changing their tune. The good news is that it might actually align with the public's best interest.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#287

Post by JPKab »

tzs wrote: post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

I saw that email. David Leonhart I believe, who is one of my preferred NYT journalists.

Something that was conspicuously absent from the paragraph regarding the unvaccinated vs. the vaccinated paragraph preceding it:

Risk stratification by age. When talking about the vaccinated, he calls out the "even in people over age 65".

There is zero question that vaccines reduce the relative risk for people under 65, however, it should be noted that the absolute risk for healthy people in this category is orders of magnitude lower purely by virtue of their age. Unhealthy people in this category should be vaccinated, of course.

Just an example of narrative bias creeping in, even from the relatively top-flight Leonhart.

Anyway, not disagreeing with you, just calling out a specific example of why the journalism on COVID has been, primarily unintentionally, misleading.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#288

Post by Mountain_Skies »

srcreigh wrote: post #257
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

Recognizing that naturally acquired immunity exists for tens of millions isn't the same thing as encouraging people to intentionally catch covid to gain natural immunity. Failure to differentiate between the two is just another way the injection maximalists look out of touch or unempathetic.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#289

Post by kritiko »

akomtu wrote: post #285
tynpeddler wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaxxed and unvaxxed populations both rely on the same medical infrastructure. So when the unvaxxed fill hospitals to recover or die, they are consuming scarce resources that are required by the population at large for other things like birth, cancer, surgery, etc. Sadly, we don't have an ethical way to let all the unvaxxed get covid without impacting the medical system negatively for the rest of us.

The same reasoning can be applied to obesity.

I highly recommend reading this series if you think obesity is a personal failure: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...

Obviously, yes, medical conditions do place burdens on health systems. That's why we tax cigarettes highly. However, in spite of considerable public health initiatives, the obesity rate continues to rise...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#290

Post by walterbell »

smnrchrds wrote: post #284
srcreigh wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

That's also why many governments do not accept proof of recovery in lieu of proof of vaccination. Those who do have vaccine-skeptic people catching the virus intentionally and risking death. https://globalnews.ca/news/8524409/hana-horka-czech-singer-c...

Let's remember that the best case for vaccinated people is Covid recovery. Wilful ignorance of the best case would be unwise.

https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-a...

> "Omicron is acting like a super booster," Unnasch said. "People who have gotten omicron are going to be really well protected against infection, not just disease moving forward, which is a really good sign."

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