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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#261

Post by eli »

dahfizz wrote: post #251
eli wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either" No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen. The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the fir…

Your links do not mention the omicron variant. The CDC estimates that an unboostered vaccine (2 doses) is only 38% effective against omicron. Boosting brings the effectiveness up to 82%.[1] So to be more precise - vaccines work against Omicron, but not as well as the original strains and only if you keep up with boosting every few months. Vaccines are less effective against omicron in general, and the effectiveness w…

I think we're saying the same thing: vaccines protect you from getting covid, but you should get a booster and even then you obviously can't expect 100% protection. (Just the one booster is fine.)

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#262

Post by mgh2 »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #240
mgh2 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice". This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

Respectfully, would you mind explaining how getting vaccinated against Covid helps fellow citizens? If it is only to reduce hospital loads then can't the same responsibility be applied to those who choose to engage in unhealthy behaviors?

You are protecting not only yourself, but others as well.

Example: Culture difference (individualistic vs collectivist). In Japan, masks are used even for common flus, as they are seen as a polite gesture toward others

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#263

Post by barbazoo »

walterbell wrote: post #111
gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

These numbers can be further separated by "with Covid" and "from Covid" causality, as well as co-morbidities and expected lifetime. E.g. if someone was soon to die from illness A, but died 3 months earlier from complications induced by Covid, and the hospital received a financial payment for classifying this as Covid-related treatment, that should be broken out into a separate reporting category. Such deaths would no…

> the hospital received a financial payment for classifying this as Covid-related treatment

Can you explain this more? Surely a hospital doesn't just get money for simply classifying it. How does a hospital benefit from classifying someone's treatment as Covid related other than being paid for the necessary treatment?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#264

Post by shafyy »

tjr225 wrote: post #118
gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

I know this is going to sound conspiratorial but I think you’d have to be pretty naive to accept the reported deaths in the US due to Covid to be that accurate. Hospitals(which in the US are for profit mind you) were quite literally given more money for reporting a death as a Covid death for a period of time. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Actually you could say it’s difficult to trus…

Actual people dying because of Covid is probably even higher than what the official data reports, see: https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1486075272638119936?s=2...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#266

Post by argvargc »

xadhominemx wrote: post #236
argvargc wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...of lockdowns?

COVID denialists often attribute excess deaths to lockdowns as opposed to undercounting of deaths from COVID. I was just preempting that line by pointing out Australia had severe lockdowns but negative excess deaths.

COVID what-ists? You mean all manner of people who have all manner of opinions and reasons for them that just so happen to differ from the views presented as scientific consensus by government, media and celebrities?

Here is a summary of over 400 studies demonstrating lockdowns are ineffective or harmful:

https://brownstone.org/articles/more-than-400-studies-on-the...

Prepare a sufficiently convincing argument against each and every one of them, and against the credentials of each and every author, before using the term "denialist" in application to anyone other than yourself.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#267

Post by MarkLowenstein »

webdood90 wrote: post #241
someguy5344523 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it looks like the vaccines don't stop the spread of covid: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/

The point is to reduce critical cases that cause hospital visits. Our system is overwhelmed as is. The fact that this still needs to be explained 2 years into this is ridiculous.

Was that really the point?

When people anxiously awaited their chance to get the vaccine in January 2021, were they thinking "ooh I can't wait to free up hospital beds"? Or was it "great now I can be immune and be done with COVID"?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#268

Post by eli »

twofornone wrote: post #252
eli wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either" No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen. The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the fir…

I don't think you understand how many assumptions are baked into the current conclusions that vaccines and masks are effective. This relies on accurate reporting of vaccination status and accurate reporting of breakthrough cases. Meanwhile in the real world covid is spreading unabated, record case counts, regardless of vaccination rate or mask compliance. Clearly something isn't adding up. Meanwhile the rosy estimate…

The vaccines are extremely safe and the real world data from shows they protect you from getting covid in the first place (and are much more effective at preventing severe covid).

Here's the data from Sen Johnson's state: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/vaccine-status.htm#ca...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#269

Post by parkingrift »

donohoe wrote: post #239
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

>Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated.

They don't protect society at all. The herd immunity goal flew out the window with Delta and left the galaxy with Omicron. We will not ever eradicate Covid-19 with vaccination.

>It ends when the the threat subsides.

It should end right now, then. The threat has subsided. We have vaccines and other treatment programs.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#270

Post by crackercrews »

donohoe wrote: post #239
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice Great! The problem is that vaccines don't protect society unless a critical-mass of people are vaccinated. The estimate for COVID-19 is that roughly 70% to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated to reach the herd immunity threshold. USA is at about 63% fully vaccinated (76% had at least one dose). where does it end? It ends when the the threat subsides. Why this…

> The people you elect to represent you (for those of us with a democracy-like government)

The problem is that so many elected officials don't abide by the rules that they push. Joe Biden, Gavin Newsom, Nancy Pelosi, London Breed, etc. When the powerful can ignore their own rules, they're more likely to enact sweeping mandates.

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