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The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

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Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#131

Post by dang »

heyitsguay wrote: post #79
weljlkjlkerg wrote: post #68

It's painfully obvious OP is talking about a smart phone and a vax passport. You don't have to be "anti-vax" (which is a stupid stupid term) to be anti-vax-passport. The people pushing for vax passports have no clue what they are unleashing. It is absolutely fascist, evil and incredibly surprising to me that 99% of the people on this website are in 100% favor of it. EVIL.

[flagged]

Could you please not take HN threads further into flamewar? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#132

Post by dang »

We've changed the url from https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1486049822847250433 to the original source it points to. Some of the comments were posted before the change, and will make more sense if you've looked at both.

All: while I have you, please post thoughtful, substantive comments. Avoid snark, attack, flamebait, and ideological talking points. The latter lead to the repetitive, nasty sort of internet brawl we're trying to avoid here. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#133

Post by NeuNeurosis »

drcongo wrote: post #103
warning26 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel this strongly about driver’s licenses?

Wait till they hear about actual passports!

Well there is an interesting history to passports. This article does a decent job of outlining how they morphed from a tool to help fight the Spanish Flu to what we see today. https://apposition.substack.com/p/papers-please

Also there is quite a bit of economic work that showcases the positive impact of removing such stringent barriers to the free movement of people.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#134

Post by 3pt14159 »

choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

No we aren't.

I don't have to buy a phone. Yes, the apps make the border easier for Covid, but don't be ridiculous. I can fallback to filling out a piece of paper. Furthermore, I can buy an [PinePhone, Librem 5, etc] phone and "fully control" that.

As for c) that's been part of life since the government got the right to tap your phone or telegraph.

Right now there are troubling signs for the direction of American democracy, but the courts have held up and life is still pretty good and, for some, getting better. I know mistakes happen and it isn't perfect, but we're no where close to being forced to own and carry a device.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#135

Post by titzer »

core-utility wrote: post #26
choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

The TV show Upload [1] has a group of people dubbed the "Ludds" (i.e. Luddites) that refuse to be party to the turn that the technological revolution has taken and stick to traditional ways of doing things. I strongly believe if that were to happen in our world today, much of Silicon Valley would be "Ludds", while a mass of non-tech people would happily welcome our new technological overlords. [1]: https://www.imdb.c…

> much of Silicon Valley would be "Ludds"

Much of Silicon Valley is just looking for a way to pay their exorbitant rent and/or become million(billion)aires. SV isn't going to take a principled stance on anything. Heck, the big players all know which side their bread is buttered on and the bigger they are, the more entwined in the corruption they are.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#136

Post by dang »

sh4un wrote: post #14
dbsmith83 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ironic considering Russia and China are already quite authoritarian societies. China is especially heavy handed on the surveillance side of things.

Quoted post unavailable.

This sort of flamebait is not welcome on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We ban accounts that take threads further into flamewar this way. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Edit: since your account has repeatedly been posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments, and you've ignored our request to stop, I've banned the account.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#137

Post by mrguyorama »

pessimizer wrote: post #77
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #7

I'm sorry, but appealing to companies makes no sense. For one, it is against their financial interests, and second, if it can be introduced, it can be reversed. He should appeal to the media instead: they should make people aware not how much control they are giving away now, but how dangerous it can become in the future. But it seems to me very few people would listen or care.

> But it seems to me very few people would listen or care. Everybody cares, they just understand that they're powerless to change anything. The companies in question and the media share ownership.

Nope, not everybody cares. My father is staunchly in the "I have nothing to hide" camp, more specifically, he thinks "what does it matter if knows I do ?"

Meanwhile many of my other relatives are afraid of being tracked, but they attribute that tracking to spy chips bill gates put in the covid vaccine. Meanwhile, as my father above pointed out, they carry their phones with them everywhere, and use facebook prominently.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#138

Post by lukifer »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #7

I'm sorry, but appealing to companies makes no sense. For one, it is against their financial interests, and second, if it can be introduced, it can be reversed. He should appeal to the media instead: they should make people aware not how much control they are giving away now, but how dangerous it can become in the future. But it seems to me very few people would listen or care.

One could interpret this call to action being targeted as much at individual workers in SV, and its general culture (as in, quit your high-paying VC-backed job, and work on something FOSS/federated).

In either case, I agree appealing to corporations makes no sense; in those rare cases where their bottom lines aren't aligned with future authoritarian states, it's because they want to become quasi-authoritarian fiefs themselves.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#139

Post by growse »

digisign wrote: post #129
Quigglez wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the device required referenced in 'A'? My mind might just be missing something obvious, but I'm drawing a blank.

A smart-phone of one of the two supported corporate-controlled OSs, iOS or Android.

So then what's the law referenced in 'A' that requires me to buy and carry around a smartphone?

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#140

Post by godshatter »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #53

Snowden is twitting from Moscow. Russians in a similar position have been formally labeled "foreign agents", imprisoned, or worse. I'm wondering how Snowden managed to avoid a similar fate.

The US government wanted Snowden bad, going as far as to forcing the Bolivian President's jet to land because they thought Snowden might have been on it. A few European countries wouldn't let the plane traverse their airspace, presumably because of pressure being put on them by the US. Russia giving Snowden refugee status was a big middle finger to the West and the US in particular. It's just a bonus that every time he tweets he makes the US look bad.
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