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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#171

Post by walterbell »

djbebs wrote: post #164
walterbell wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> difficult to trust the numbers coming from any country for a variety of reasons This must be a golden age for those doing a dissertation on media studies. So many quant-driven narratives, so little time. Hopefully cross-country data and narratives are being archived and aggregated into an open-data academic repository that can be studied in coming years.

Given that raw data of vaccine trials aren't even being made public I doubt that any reliable data is being collected, let alone analysed

Progress is slowly being made on transparency. For the Omicron-specific Pfizer vaccine, the clinical trial in humans must be completed before approval and clinical trial data must be submitted at the same time (no 75-year delays).

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

> recent study from Israel showed that while a fourth dose of an mRNA vaccine boosted antibodies, the level was not high enough to prevent infection by the Omicron variant ... the debate appears to have shifted with the European Medicines Agency (EMA) saying on Friday that international regulators now preferred clinical studies to be carried out before approval of a new vaccine ... it may not be possible to realise a current plan to launch an Omicron-targeting vaccine by the end of March ... Inclusion of clinical trial data in the regulatory filings may have an impact on the delivery of initial batches.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#172

Post by xscott »

fileeditview wrote: post #150
xscott wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the medicine would need to be 100x [300x-400x] more expensive than the vaccine I'm not suggesting this is true, but it would need to be 100x-400x more profitable , and that includes cost to make and store as well as the price is charged. Maybe making mRNA vaccines costs much more than a simpler molecule like Paxlovid [0], and hospitals generally seem to charge much more than the over the counter price for ever…

This is what i meant (profitable). Sorry bad translation. However their vaccine research was highly funded by states (at least here in Germany and I suspect everywhere else too) so.. not sure how easy it would be to calculate all of that.

That's another subtlety. They've already been funded to make the mRNA vaccine, so maybe that has been milked dry and it's time to move on to the next profitable cow. Obviously I'm just speculating that it's possible.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#173

Post by jaywalk »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #152
BitwiseFool wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the nex…

There is lots of precedent for winding down wartime laws. Libertarians think governments want to be authoritarian for the sake of being authoritarian, but that is not how democracy works.

Let me know when the USA PATRIOT act finally expires (without pieces being made into permanent laws).

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#175

Post by boring_twenties »

_fat_santa wrote: post #126
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

The good news is if you pay the $100 for TSA Pre-Check, you won't have to take your mask off to clear the checkpoint.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#176

Post by abduhl »

boring_twenties wrote: post #168
johnnyb9 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their choice to not be vaccinated or wear masks results in people we love dying. It's hard to see how vaccines stop the spread when places like NYC or Israel (some of the most vaccinated places in the world) had record setting numbers in the recent wave. If vaccines work, shouldn't the "people you love" be vaccinated and thus not impacted by unvaccinated people? I understand masks can be effective in some cases, bu…

> 99.99% This is an extraordinary claim that runs counter to all available evidence and should be backed up by extraordinary evidence.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v... indicates that death rate is less than 0.1 per 1000 for omicron. Sample size is high:

Our analyses included 52,297 cases with SGTF (Omicron) and 16,982 cases with non-SGTF (Delta [B.1.617.2]) infections, respectively

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#177

Post by [deleted] »

boring_twenties wrote: post #168
johnnyb9 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their choice to not be vaccinated or wear masks results in people we love dying. It's hard to see how vaccines stop the spread when places like NYC or Israel (some of the most vaccinated places in the world) had record setting numbers in the recent wave. If vaccines work, shouldn't the "people you love" be vaccinated and thus not impacted by unvaccinated people? I understand masks can be effective in some cases, bu…

> 99.99% This is an extraordinary claim that runs counter to all available evidence and should be backed up by extraordinary evidence.

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#178

Post by yonaguska »

nicoburns wrote: post #53
walterbell wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> slows it Not necessarily. Because vaccines suppress symptoms, people who would otherwise isolate in the presence of symptoms could be unaware they are infected and transmitting to others.

My understanding is that people with suppressed symptoms are also less likely to transmit it. This makes sense given that we know coughing and sneezing is a primary transmission vector. So if you're not coughing and sneezing you're much less likely to transmit it. Of course you still can transmit it just by breathing, but it's just less likely. I would also add that I'm speaking in the context of the UK. Here we have…

Ok, so if suppressed symptoms means less likely to spread it- then restrictions based on vaccination status mean nothing. Restrictions based on symptoms are the only restrictions that make sense. I'm not arguing with you, but just pointing out one of the most ridiculous things that I'm currently going through here in Chicago. I am not allowed to workout at a gym, sit down and eat at a restaurant, but if I'm vaccinated, even if I'm sick, I can live my life unrestricted. I am now driving an extra 20 miles daily to workout as my partner was kicked from her gym for not being vaccinated. Great for the environment. Meanwhile- she caught covid a few weeks ago, and despite being pregnant, was recovered within 2 days. We isolated for a week, and I never had symptoms whatsoever. Natural immunity. Meanwhile, and this is anecdotal, but everyone we know that has has had a really bad time with covid during the past month, has also been vaccinated and boosted. And if they had mild cases, they didn't isolate like we did- they just assumed that they were fine because they are vaccinated. But we are the selfish ones.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#179

Post by s1artibartfast »

jrodthree24 wrote: post #73
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I don't understand why people keep asking this like some kind of magic bullet. Obviously there is a governmental body that has the authority to do this wherever you are from. And in a democracy that governmental body will be acting based on the will of the people. Even if you disagree that the executive has that authority, the courts have the authority to interpret if they do. And the legislature ultimately has the a…

Is it that hard to understand that many people are uncomfortable or unclear where the the line is drawn between civil liberties and state powers/majority rule. You might say that covid mandates are clearly inside the lines, but that isn't a declaration of where the line is.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#180

Post by walterbell »

tomrod wrote: post #125
Izkata wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

> I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety. No, the problem is that we do, and also see the selfishness of the position with regards to highly communicable diseases. "My body, my choice" is a fantastic principle when the outcome of the choice has negligible impact on people breathing the same air. Many of these same folks would raise a stir if their neighbor st…

> Their choice to not be vaccinated or wear masks results in people we love dying.

If they are one of the 146 million Americans who recovered from Covid, they are at low risk of reinfection and thus transmission.

The same cannot be said for Covid-naive, vaccinated people who can be infected and silently infect others due to symptoms being suppressed by the vaccine.

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