Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#131

Post by walterbell » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #118

gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

I know this is going to sound conspiratorial but I think you’d have to be pretty naive to accept the reported deaths in the US due to Covid to be that accurate. Hospitals(which in the US are for profit mind you) were quite literally given more money for reporting a death as a Covid death for a period of time. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fac... Actually you could say it’s difficult to trus…

> difficult to trust the numbers coming from any country for a variety of reasons

This must be a golden age for those doing a dissertation on media studies. So many quant-driven narratives, so little time. Hopefully cross-country data and narratives are being archived and aggregated into an open-data academic repository that can be studied in coming years.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#132

Post by tinus_hn » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #50

walterbell wrote: post #38

The media's binary separation of populations into vax and unvax is a false dichotomy. More causal factors would be represented by: 1. Covid-recovered 2. Vaccinated 3. Partly-vaccinated ( CDC reporting bundles #3 and #4. UK reports all 4 categories separately. #1 was already a high percentage in 2021 and is now higher due to Omicron. Edit: CDC estimated pre-Omicron #1 as 146 million people (as of Oct 2021), https://ww…

It is so amazing to me how many people don't seem to recognize this. My (somewhat baseless) speculation on this is that a lot of the people in forums like HN are early adopter types who mostly work from home, and so were able to avoid exposure and got the vaccine relatively early. From this standpoint, I could see it being harder to empathize with folks who were exposed in everyday life (it's just a simple jab, I did…

These days you have to add ‘eligible for booster and chose not to get it’, ‘got booster shot’ and ‘not eligible yet for booster shot’.

In the Netherlands we started the booster campaign on November 18, but we get graphs claiming ‘hardly any people with boosters in hospital!’ with the data including hospitalizations from November 19 onwards.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#133

Post by ouchjars » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

robrorcroptrer wrote: post #77

peter422 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ends with covid vaccines because that is the only pandemic that is currently raging across the globe. The politicians we elect democratically makes the decisions.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

If you could avoid getting obese with two shots in the arm and wearing a piece of cloth every time you leave the house for a couple years.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#134

Post by bthomas » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

peter422 wrote: post #87

yucky wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be any correlation between states like New York and Florida and their polar opposite approaches to mandates. In the end, the data says it made no difference. Why?

Florida have had way more deaths after vaccinations were widely available. Also don’t compare to NY… New York is such a unique state due to how it was hit so hard right away. Compare Florida and California. Florida has 50% more deaths per capita. That’s a lot!

The % of the population over 65 is around 50% higher in Florida too. It's complicated!

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#135

Post by xscott » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

fileeditview wrote: post #42

sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

I doubt that. Consider no one was vaccinated and 1% of humans would need medication because of a "serious" case. Then the medicine would need to be 100x more expensive than the vaccine considering the alternative is everyone was vaccinated. Now consider many people got 3 or even 4 shots. It's 300x-400x now. Also you can give the medicine to already vaccinated people that also have serious cases. So you still can sell…

> Then the medicine would need to be 100x [300x-400x] more expensive than the vaccine

I'm not suggesting this is true, but it would need to be 100x-400x more profitable, and that includes cost to make and store as well as the price is charged.

Maybe making mRNA vaccines costs much more than a simpler molecule like Paxlovid [0], and hospitals generally seem to charge much more than the over the counter price for everything. You've seen horror stories about $25 aspirin [1] which is easily 400x more expensive than the penny per pill cost of 500 tablets in a $5 bottle [2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmatrelvir

[1] https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/blog/why-aspirin-taken...

[2] https://amazon.com/Basic-Care-Aspirin-Regular-Strength/dp/B0...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#136

Post by ErikVandeWater » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

MagnumOpus wrote: post #106

Izkata wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Quoted post unavailable.

Are you equally critical of the obese? Or those who ride motorcycles on the highway?

As someone who is vaxxed, I struggle to see how the harm done by the unvaccinated is categorically worse than the risks taken by others at society's expense. I imagine you have none of the disdain for motorcycle riders that you do for the unvaccinated.

Edit: For those replying to my comment, please note the comment I replied to listed the cost of hospitalization and the crowding out of ICU beds for others as costs society has to bear; if you are crowded out of an ICU bed, whether it be from someone who is unvaccinated or someone who is obese, you are dead nonetheless.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#137

Post by 01100011 » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:09 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #86

Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Until they get seriously ill and then they start crying.

My dad's physician, of all people, was anti vax until he ended up in the ER. Then he started telling all of his patients to get vaxxed.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#138

Post by encryptluks2 » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

easton wrote: post #70

encryptluks2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

They were being snarky. Nobody would say "I want to control your body" (well, not in this context anyway). A better way to phrase it would probably be "Why should anyone be able to tell me what to do with my body?" (and another sentence or two elaborating on the thought)

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#139

Post by pohl » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

rajup wrote: post #113

giraffe_lady wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you feel about people who are vaccinated but will still likely have permanent serious consequences or shortened life span due to a "mild" infection? I'm in this category and it doesn't seem particularly rare. Rarely accounted for in these "I am done" type posts though.

Ok but what do you propose though? The vaccinated still spread COVID granted at a lesser rate. A permanent mask mandate? COVID is not going away.

The idea of cooking food stayed. Sanitation stayed. The practice of washing hands stayed. Refrigeration of food stayed. Why the heck shouldn't the use masks stay?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#140

Post by renewiltord » Wed, Jan 26, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #128

Bhilai wrote: post #80

I am done. I did my part, wore masks (sometimes double masks,) three shots of vaccines and took all reasonable precautions that a sane person could do. But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people (sure, blame me for putting everyone in this binary category) and I am done caring about this class of people. I could not see my family for two years due to one or the other international travel restrictions…

Well hope you don't need to be hospitalized for any other reason then because the beds might be full, there probably won't be enough providers because of burn out, and costs will be going up. We are nearing a collapse of our medical system in a way that people don't seem to be recognizing or doing anything about.

Nearing collapse, are we?

Predict the time of collapse and define “collapse”. I will take a 1:1 $10k bet for the other side if it’s soon enough and reasonable enough. Soon enough and reasonable enough and I’ll raise it to $100k.

$10k is enough for you to medical tourism to the third world. $100k is enough for you to medical tourism to many parts of the first world. So I think this is fair.