Live data from Hacker News

The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

cheapskatesguide.org

311–320 of 409 posts

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#311
When talking about online communities and gathering places I think people make an incredible mistake: they consider relative values instead of absolute ones.

Sure in many cases one has to look at how much something is popular relative to the general population, but do you really need to think like that when talking about websites and forums? I mean, from an absolute point of view there are many more forums, personal blogs, rss feeds and independent projects than ever before, even if their relative popularity has declined. But what do you care? A forum hosting 300 active users is already incredibly crowded, it's very difficult you will get to know even half of all them in your own lifetime, why do you need everything to turn virally popular?

Would you want your local NIX club to suddenly jump from a few tens of members to thousands? No, because the point is to create a community. Who cares if some NIX club residing on Facebook has 100.000 members, ultimately what you care about is the one you go to every week/month and in which you see real people and talk real talk. We are not talking here about an industrial endeavor where if not enough users partake then production crawls to a halt worldwide, we are talking about buying a crappy computer, coding a few pages in simple HTML and buying a funky domain name for pennies. It will always be cheap and simple to host your own stuff, you don't need self hosting to become the next big thing to enjoy your life.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#312

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

> How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'.

I don't, but I've been meaning to have one for a long time now. I even started and got a vps from hetzner but they blocked me. I can't really decide where or how I want to host it.

> Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

That's not true at all. Today I want creative communities and community-built software & hardware projects more than ever. I wouldn't mind having my own business that is beneficial to a community (same way e.g. how Olimex or Raspberry and PCB manufacturers are beneficial to people building open source hardware and don't have the means to fabricate circuit boards at home) but I don't think everything should be monetized and turned into business.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything I read on the internet is informed by the publish date. One of my biggest frustrations is sites that don't include publish dates because it makes the content 'evergreen'. Really frustrating.

Hah yes if I can't see a publish date on something I often look for something else. Not saying things need to be formatted/sorted by publish date (which I think is grandparent's actual point) but definitely it helps with contextualising content.

You got my point. I do appreciate the created/modified date on pages, I just prefer content to be organize by something pertinent to the content itself. Sometimes that is the publication date, sometimes it’s something else.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think the long tail really suffers with a lot of popularity algorithms. Instead of a mixed bag with a bit for everyone you get the absolute lowest common denominator.

The long tail isn't in unalloyed good for producers of long tail content/products. While some sales/views are better than no sales/views no individual site is making bank on sales. It's great if you're Amazon or Google Ads which basically serve the long tail. They benefit from the entire tail.

That's assuming there is something to sell.

A page like this is absolutely fascinating, but not something you'd ever find on the major platforms, and also isn't helped at all by Google Ads: http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/Machinery.html

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#316

I have never understood people who mourn the death of the "old" internet because I do not feel I have lost it. Particular communities come and go, as they always have, but I have found that the I can find the same sorts of gathering places for the same kinds of people I always have - in about the same numbers too. The thing that has changed is that a huge swath of new people have come online and, though some of what…

> I have found that the I can find the same sorts of gathering places for the same kinds of people I always have - in about the same numbers too. My personal experience does not match that. There was a time (2010-2012 or so where I used to live) when communities were migrating from older "forums" to new and shiny "social networks" - and inevitably ceasing to be communities. One of these communities was niche enough (…

Is there any reason a subreddit wouldn't work for that community? Or is that not "forumy" enough?

I'm genuinely curious.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#317
post #32

I feel like this article doesn't address the reason why people moved away from the "old" Internet --- most people only care about their _content_ not the particular technology that backs it. In the old times, you could only host content if you were really good with the technology. The people who had websites were people who knew how to set up and run a web server, and to compose the HTML content that was being served…

> In the old times, you could only host content if you were really good with the technology. The people who had websites were people who knew how to set up and run a web server, and to compose the HTML content that was being served.

I don't see what's particularly difficult with hosting a static or mostly-static site, and why you'd have to be really good with it (many early content creators weren't). With Apache shared hosting (where your domain, certificates/acme, and basic htaccess are setup for you), this is a matter of putting a couple of HTML and optional CSS files into your document root via ftp/sftp back in the day, or scp, or WebDAV. And HTML is really not that complex a format (or at least used to be before responsive/mobile web), being based on SGML which was designed as structured text format that can be created with a plain text editor in a way that's being taught in secondary school for decades now, and tips available in magazines etc.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#318

I have never understood people who mourn the death of the "old" internet because I do not feel I have lost it. Particular communities come and go, as they always have, but I have found that the I can find the same sorts of gathering places for the same kinds of people I always have - in about the same numbers too. The thing that has changed is that a huge swath of new people have come online and, though some of what…

I do not miss the old internet per se, but I do feel sad that in 1997 I had a 56K dial in modem on a Pentium II running Internet Explorer and today I have a 1Gbps connection on a M1 MacBook running a modern browser, and web performance is still more or less the same. Instead of spending our extra processing power and bandwith on useful stuff, we spent it on tracking and JS frameworks and other bullshit.

> sad that in 1997 I had a 56K dial in modem on a Pentium II running Internet Explorer and today I have a 1Gbps connection on a M1

Images took ages to download on 56k. Performance today is vastly better.

There are cases where progress has moved backwards eg. new buggy JS Reddit, but I by no means have rose tinted spectacles for the past.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#319

How many of you mourning the old internet frequent neocities or have their own personal website ? I don't think the the answer is 'a lot'. Everyone on HN complains about everything being turned into a business but everyone also wants to create their own start up and turn it into a unicorn.

Best analysis I've read on HN in a long while. Straight to the point. My generation (the people between 35 and 50) is the most nostalgic about the good ole Web of yore, yet we are the generation that turned it into the ad-ridden cesspool we currently complain about. What we're missing is not the Internet-that-was, rather our ability to spend time on useless projects in a wilder environment without thinking about the…

Well said too.

Those NOT doing what is "expected" of "big money" need to a better ways to connect, support each other and work togther against those expectations.

Post reply on HN