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The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

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Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#171
I have never understood people who mourn the death of the "old" internet because I do not feel I have lost it. Particular communities come and go, as they always have, but I have found that the I can find the same sorts of gathering places for the same kinds of people I always have - in about the same numbers too.

The thing that has changed is that a huge swath of new people have come online and, though some of what brought them online is wider access to connectivity, a lot of what brought them online are new kinds of communities. They showed up for social media and most of them just aren't that interested in the things that made up the "old" internet.

I put "old" in quotes because people have kept and maintained the parts they love. You can still play MUDs, you can still visit BBSes, people still run Hotline servers[1]! Many of these communities have changed because the world has changed: lots of people who played MUDs in 1990 have moved on to other online games, but lots have not! Critically - tools have continued to be developed. You can use IRCCloud (and be told it makes you a bad IRC'er), you can play MUDs on your phone, etc. These communities have changed with the times and improved for it.

My sense is that the absolute number of people who are involved in these communities has dropped, but not actually by that much? Maybe half as many people play MUDs now as they did at the peak - but it's a steady half. I think of it like the communities around vinyl or around film photography: less central than they once were, but healthy and vital.

I am really glad that people who were not online at all during their peak are discovering these older forms. We have kept them for good reasons. But don't call it a comeback, they have been here for years.

[1] https://hotline.fandom.com/wiki/Clients

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#172
I discovered a Dave Gahan fan site [1] last year that looked like it was a holdover from "the old internet". I loved it and was even more delighted when I discovered it was created in 2021 [2]:

> I realize that static websites like this were more popular in the internet's early days, long before the rise of social media and the emergence of user-created Wikis, and have now somewhat fallen out of fashion. However, there were a lot of static websites like this dedicated to Dave Gahan and Depeche Mode back then that had a level of quality that I just don't see nowadays. Sadly, many of them have disappeared or have been abandoned. There is something to be missed about websites like those, though, with their eye-catching graphics and pile of links that took you on a journey as if you were walking through a museum, and I want to bring that experience back through this website, as outdated as that experience may very well be.

Beautiful. Bring back the old internet.

[1] https://www.davegahandevotion.com/

[2] https://www.davegahandevotion.com/site/about.php

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you have to do is not collect any data. Don't set any cookies.

Setting cookies is fine. If they are needed. You need a session cookie for the login function the user uses? - Use a cookie. No banner needed. The user puts something in their shopping basket? - Use a session cookie. No banner needed. You want to store information, not required, in order to identify the user again even though they didn't login, maybe to share the identity with an ad network? - You need a cookie banne…

Not only that, but storing information to identify the user again requires affirmative consent. GDPR doesn't just require that the user can opt out of tracking, but that any tracking occurs only after the user has freely given informed consent.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#174
I hope it is true. I have been nostalgic about old school forums and during covid lock down built a platform for anyone to host one (and hopefully make meaningful revenue). However, I'm finding it really difficult to get traction. I hope it is because of my poor marketing skills and not because no one really cares for the old internet beyond some fond memories.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The barrier of entry was actually lower than that. We didn't need to stand up an Apache server. We could just sign up for a Geocities/Xoom/Tripod account and upload HTML or use the built in site editor to create content. Reading this thread feels like everyone is anchored to whatever methods were popular at the time they entered the internet as being the peak. The BBS people think it was all downhill after BBS decl…

I agree with this. You can still do all those things ! And there are still people doing all those things. It's just not novel or exciting to us anymore. And I might be more disappointed now that my Geocities about a comic book never gets any hits, while there are influencers on Instagram and TikTok making $$$$, than I was in 1999 when that wasn't really conceivable. (And then there are the neat things that weren't ev…

> But I also don't think it added enough value that people would pay for it

There was non-commercial curation back in the day, DMOZ was the most prominent example. In general, commercialism was very rare on the early Internet. "Business" sites were thought of as somewhat exceptional, not the norm.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#176
post #154

These niche groups for enthusiasts, tilde club or mastodon or neocities or aral balkan or whatever can't ever bring the old internet back. It's not coming back, it's really not, you just have to accept that the world you used to love is gone and find some new way to do things. Why make a dollhouse of your past. You must move on!

Dollhouse, fine. Why not then, when I switch browsers and doom scroll on Gemini I read different crap that the crap I read here.

I’m still frying my body and rotting my brain but at least it’s different content.

Yes that won’t solve anything, but does it have to?

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#177
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The barrier of entry was actually lower than that. We didn't need to stand up an Apache server. We could just sign up for a Geocities/Xoom/Tripod account and upload HTML or use the built in site editor to create content. Somewhere along the way, people stopped building well organized sites and started producing chronologically organized writings and content. These chronologically organized articles and content have d…

> The barrier of entry was actually lower than that. We didn't need to stand up an Apache server. We could just sign up for a Geocities/Xoom/Tripod account and upload HTML or use the built in site editor to create content. Reading this thread feels like everyone is anchored to whatever methods were popular at the time they entered the internet as being the peak. The BBS people think it was all downhill after BBS decl…

Nah, I'm a BBS person and I think it's been all downhill since social media.

(Specifically, Livejournal was the tipping-point between blogging platforms and social media, Myspace was unquestionably downward, Facebook is the antichrist pure and simple.)

I have no problem with chronological or hierarchical content. Whatever the author wants to put out, is their prerogative.

What I have a problem with is walled gardens, stalking-as-a-business-model, and arbitrary automated deplatforming with no recourse.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not, with web-rings? I don't mean that snarkily: I have at least 2-3 webrings on my personal link page, and neocities is home to literally hundreds more.

Web-rings are linked lists, slow to navigate. Google gives you hashtable access to the web.

Slow to navigate, but amenable to “browsing” and finding related pages and sites. Think of it as a built-in recommendation engine.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#179
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The barrier of entry was actually lower than that. We didn't need to stand up an Apache server. We could just sign up for a Geocities/Xoom/Tripod account and upload HTML or use the built in site editor to create content. Somewhere along the way, people stopped building well organized sites and started producing chronologically organized writings and content. These chronologically organized articles and content have d…

> The barrier of entry was actually lower than that. We didn't need to stand up an Apache server. We could just sign up for a Geocities/Xoom/Tripod account and upload HTML or use the built in site editor to create content. Reading this thread feels like everyone is anchored to whatever methods were popular at the time they entered the internet as being the peak. The BBS people think it was all downhill after BBS decl…

I agree that nostalgia plays a part, but one could argue that it was at its "peak" in the "early days" and "declining" since (quoted words by whatever definitions as it is all quite subjective). Such that chronologically no matter what time a given person first experienced the Internet, they established the peak at that point since they didn't experience what was before, but they could universally agree that it became worst since their own relative point, and that can be true agnostic of nostalgia. If a given system is reliably getting worse over time for any attribute, the relative peak for a given observer will always be when their first measurement is taken.

You could also work backwards from what you stated. For someone who first experienced digital connectivity via BBSes, would they also state the Geocities "era" was better than the blogging platforms era? Perhaps?

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#180

I don't think the old internet ever went away, instead the commercial internet exploded, in some ways good in some ways bad. If you want to create and showcase your own stuff you have a ton more options than you used to, it could be nostalgic HTML pages with blinking colors or some slick thing on a prefab site builder, up to you.

In general I've begun to think of the whole small internet movement as a countrerculture phenomenon. It's got a lot of touching stones with the bohemians, the beats, the hippies, etc. What they've all got in common is a search for independence, authenticity and community. I do think the retro-aesthetic is more of a statement than anything else. It's like the long hair of a hippie. Like there's no reason a hippie coul…

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