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How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

erichgrunewald.com

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Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#141

Post by chillacy »

cupcake-unicorn wrote: post #42
chillacy wrote: post #12

> One week or so ago I switched from Colemak to typing on QWYRFM due to the reduced load it places on the pinkies. I typed Dvorak for 10 years before I started getting RSI again in my right ulna. It turns out that the 'S' key being hit by the pinky in Dvorak caused me a lot of pain. I ended up switching to BEAKL, a pretty obscure layout which is specifically made to alleviate stress on the pinky. It moves the relativ…

Did you ever try Colemak? I've been Colemak for probably 5 years now, I can't speak to pinkie specific pain but I get much less tired on long typing sessions. It's interesting to me how everyone seems to know of Dvorak over Colemak. But I never heard of BEAKL, thanks. For me the issue with Dvorak was that I wasn't ready to give up my function keys (control x, c).

I haven't, just went straight to dvorak. Afaik Colemak has less intense right pinky usage but more same-hand rolls.

Losing the function keys is a pain, on MacOS you can use Dvorak-Qwerty which retains them, on my new keyboard I just have a new "command" layer which retains the old positions.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#142

Post by chillacy »

jhanschoo wrote: post #41
chillacy wrote: post #12

> One week or so ago I switched from Colemak to typing on QWYRFM due to the reduced load it places on the pinkies. I typed Dvorak for 10 years before I started getting RSI again in my right ulna. It turns out that the 'S' key being hit by the pinky in Dvorak caused me a lot of pain. I ended up switching to BEAKL, a pretty obscure layout which is specifically made to alleviate stress on the pinky. It moves the relativ…

I wonder if changing your keyboard to use lighter switches is another way to alleviate that

It helps, my latest keyboard uses 25g linear choc switches (so low travel too).

I've tried the trendy heavy 60+g springs and I tend to get fatigued.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#143

Post by Zircom »

Shorel wrote: post #136
irthomasthomas wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was some research that showed people who typed with fewer fingers could be just as fast. However, I am surprised that anyone could achieve 100wpm with no training.

I think the difference is these people need to be constantly looking at the keyboard, as they depend on the letters printed over the keys. But yes, they can be fast in short bursts.

100% touch typing here, no looking.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#144

Post by Zircom »

jacobmischka wrote: post #86
Zircom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've never trained or practiced my typing, but I've always naturally typed using only my thumb, pointer and middle finger, no pinky or ring fingers at all, but still manage to hit 80-100WPM without them on QWERTY. Good instincts I guess.

This sounds wild and frankly I don't believe you.

So small caveats, I lied a little. This is the first time I've ever really sat down and analyzed my typing. I do use my ring fingers slightly, on my left hand I use my ring finger for "z" "a" and "q" exclusively, and on my right hand I use the ring finger for backspace exclusively. I also only use my left thumb to hit the space bar and use my right index finger for space when my left thumb isn't available, and don't use my right thumb at all.

I managed to hit 93WPM(really 102WPM if you look, it wouldn't continue until I finished the last word which I didn't notice for quite a few seconds lowering the final time) my first try while holding my phone in my mouth which was a little distracting to be honest, and after about 10 minutes of warming up and not holding the phone managed to get it to 132WPM.

First try at 93WPM - https://gfycat.com/groundedpettyeider Had to cut it to 60 seconds to fit into gfycat, so it starts a little into me already typing but gets the idea across

Last try getting to 132WPM - https://i.imgur.com/r2ecd1Z.png

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#145

Post by Zircom »

6510 wrote: post #104
Zircom wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I've never trained or practiced my typing, but I've always naturally typed using only my thumb, pointer and middle finger, no pinky or ring fingers at all, but still manage to hit 80-100WPM without them on QWERTY. Good instincts I guess.

I would love to see a video.

So small caveats, I lied a little. This is the first time I've ever really sat down and analyzed my typing. I do use my ring fingers slightly, on my left hand I use my ring finger for "z" "a" and "q" exclusively, and on my right hand I use the ring finger for backspace exclusively. I also only use my left thumb to hit the space bar and use my right index finger for space when my left thumb isn't available, and don't use my right thumb at all.

I managed to hit 93WPM(really 102WPM if you look, it wouldn't continue until I finished the last word which I didn't notice for quite a few seconds lowering the final time) my first try while holding my phone in my mouth which was a little distracting to be honest, and after about 10 minutes of warming up and not holding the phone managed to get it to 132WPM.

First try at 93WPM - https://gfycat.com/groundedpettyeider Had to cut it to 60 seconds to fit into gfycat, so it starts a little into me already typing but gets the idea across

Last try getting to 132WPM - https://i.imgur.com/r2ecd1Z.png

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#146

Post by jacobmischka »

Zircom wrote: post #144
jacobmischka wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds wild and frankly I don't believe you.

So small caveats, I lied a little. This is the first time I've ever really sat down and analyzed my typing. I do use my ring fingers slightly, on my left hand I use my ring finger for "z" "a" and "q" exclusively, and on my right hand I use the ring finger for backspace exclusively. I also only use my left thumb to hit the space bar and use my right index finger for space when my left thumb isn't available, and don't…

Impressive, I stand corrected. Definitely stand by it being wild though, lol.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#147

Post by heavenlyblue »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #63
fortran77 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 59. Been programming most days/week since 1980 or so. And I play the piano 2+ hours/day. No RSI.

Maybe there's more to RSI than, you know, typing per se.

Exactly the point I was making in the first place.

Re: How bad is QWERTY, really? A review of the literature, such as it is

#148

Post by Matrixik »

pnutjam wrote: post #123
blarg1 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could try a ball mouse, the one I use, has the thumb on the ball, and the normal fingers for the buttons.

I tried one of those, but you can only use them with left or right hand and the wheel still aggravates my wrist. Swapping from left to right seems better. I also add in a little weight training and I don't have any problems.

Did you check finger operated trackballs? They are symetrical and can be operated by both hands. Examples: Kensington Orbit, Kensington Expert Trackball, GameBall trackball, Logitech TrackMan Marble, X-keys L-Trac.
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