The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#311

Post by bhouser » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

MilnerRoute wrote: post #286

jonnycomputer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the bottom of the wage scale have seen the biggest gains, in real terms ( https://fortune.com/2021/12/10/inflation-wages-low-income-wo... ). Its the middle and upper middle class that are being made (a little) poorer by inflation. A fine trade-off imo. And given the asymmetry of the risks policy makers faced (great depression vs higher than average inflation), they wisely went with the risk o…

The other thing I never hear discussed is that this round of inflation isn't expected to be permanent, or even particularly long-lasting. So a wage increase in January which is (temporarily) eaten up by January's inflation means....an actual wage increase in May which then goes on for years and years.

I think you're making a mathematical error here.

If inflation goes to zero, that does not mean prices have fallen to where they were before. It merely means prices stop increasing further.

So a temporary bout of inflation equal in magnitude to a one-time but persistent wage increase, _do_ cancel out.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#312

Post by lanfeust6 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #3

> spectacles like the immense popularity of the "Anti-Work" thread on Reddit — have gone as far as to suggest this record-breaking trend is a movement of young, able-bodied Americans rejecting work altogether. I don't think this is the point of "anti work". The point is (to me) that people should be treated equitably at work and that work shouldn't be the center of our lives

According to the faq and the mods, the point is "anti-labor under Capitalism". You have a core user base of basically commies, but a larger chunk of participants just voicing grievances about labor conditions. This is by intention, they're hoping to rub off on people.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#313

Post by giantg2 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #310

giantg2 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm asking how it was 10%

Inflation was 7%. Most of my diet is meat which is up ~20%. Also if you want to do some home improvement like put in a pool, that's up 20 - 25%.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that would comprise enough of one's budget to have such a big effect. Thanks

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#314

Post by Stupulous » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #247

georgyo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your touching on a much more complicated subject about reporting. If someone one owns a billion dollars of stock foobar, and foobar grows 10x, then that person is now worth 10B and "made" 9B. However they have not sold anything so while they can be reported as making 9B, they are none of it was directly cash and not taxed; at least not yet. However, while Bezos "only" has a salary/bonus of 1.5 million a year, it is v…

The billionaire stock owner in your example's economic power has increased by 10x regardless though. They can borrow against that money and those funds aren't taxed - so they can effectively spend it without taxation. They can cycle debt to avoid ever having to sell a single share for their entire life, at rates more favorable than any middle class person has access to. We can fix our tax code with legislation to add…

I assume they borrow against the after-tax value of the stock, because it will be taxed before being paid back(?) I don't know if that is significant, but I figure it's worth noting.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#315

Post by _dain_ » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #30

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. Actual resignations are up slightly, but the idea that employees are quitting in droves is exaggerated. It’s higher than normal turnover, but the stories are written in ways to suggest that companies everywhere are gutted by employees leaving in bulk. I feel like “great resignation” was deliberately chosen to mislead people into thinkin…

Anecdotally in my business I saw effectively no churn in employment through most of the pandemic. Hiring new people was also nearly impossible. Then, towards the end of last year a significant number of workers quit. Finding new people to replace them also was surprisingly easy. I suspect a lot of people were afraid to move on to new opportunities for a while due to the uncertainty of the pandemic. Once enough confid…

>I suspect a lot of people were afraid to move on to new opportunities for a while due to the uncertainty of the pandemic. Once enough confidence was restored, the job hopping we'd expect to play out over the course of a couple of years all happened in a few months.

yep that's me. I wanted to quit over a year ago but I kept putting it off due to pandemic circumstances.

but now that everyone sees omicron is a wet fart and things are going back to normal, I put in my notice yesterday.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#316

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

softwaredoug wrote: post #3

> spectacles like the immense popularity of the "Anti-Work" thread on Reddit — have gone as far as to suggest this record-breaking trend is a movement of young, able-bodied Americans rejecting work altogether. I don't think this is the point of "anti work". The point is (to me) that people should be treated equitably at work and that work shouldn't be the center of our lives

> I don't think this is the point of "anti work".

You should tell this to them. I've spent a lot of time in the sub (left recently though) and many of the people there seem to think we have the technology and means for a fully automated economy and are simply choosing not to switch over.

They truly believe if we had some form of pseudo-anarchist revolution, they would never have to spend another day doing anything but fun, rewarding activities.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#317

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:29 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #36

nightski wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are doing that right here (narrative with little data). Even the NPR article says "the labor force participation rate remains significantly smaller than before the pandemic and it's still hard for employers to fill open jobs". There is data to back this up and it's not just a narrative.

> There is data to back this up and it's not just a narrative. The narrative is directionally correct. The issue is that the media (including NPR) has done everything they can think of to exaggerate it as much as possible. Once you look at the actual numbers it’s not the sea change we’ve been hearing about everywhere. The data is being omitted because the omission leaves more room for imaginations to run with the hea…

[deleted]

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#318

Post by beambot » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #247

georgyo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your touching on a much more complicated subject about reporting. If someone one owns a billion dollars of stock foobar, and foobar grows 10x, then that person is now worth 10B and "made" 9B. However they have not sold anything so while they can be reported as making 9B, they are none of it was directly cash and not taxed; at least not yet. However, while Bezos "only" has a salary/bonus of 1.5 million a year, it is v…

The billionaire stock owner in your example's economic power has increased by 10x regardless though. They can borrow against that money and those funds aren't taxed - so they can effectively spend it without taxation. They can cycle debt to avoid ever having to sell a single share for their entire life, at rates more favorable than any middle class person has access to. We can fix our tax code with legislation to add…

Wealth != income. What you're advocating isn't changing a loophole, it's developing an entirely new tax (wealth tax) to supplant the old (income tax). It helps to be explicit.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#319

Post by SauciestGNU » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:30 PM UTC

gfiorav wrote: post #21

softwaredoug wrote: post #3

> spectacles like the immense popularity of the "Anti-Work" thread on Reddit — have gone as far as to suggest this record-breaking trend is a movement of young, able-bodied Americans rejecting work altogether. I don't think this is the point of "anti work". The point is (to me) that people should be treated equitably at work and that work shouldn't be the center of our lives

This is honestly my gripe with r/antiwork. It could be (and sometimes is) a hub for a mature conversation towards unionizing and regaining meaningful industry in the US, but it choses to be the place for edgy workers from all ages to declare themselves "marxists". As if they thrived on the ever-diminishing amount of gasps that word incites. Like a bunch of teenagers trying to out-edge everyone else. Hard to read.

It seems uncharitable to assume people are analyzing society through a Marxist lens for "gasps". I personally believe that Marxism is a useful tool for understanding the interplay between the powerful elites in our society and the state. I also have a degree in political science (in addition to my CS grad degree), so I feel confident in saying that I'm not an edgy teen and that I have the academic background to apply Marxist analysis to contemporary issues.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#320

Post by orthecreedence » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:31 PM UTC

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #68

oats wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's in the sidebar, but a quick browsing of the posts in there suggests a more socialist bent to me.

I mean the Venn diagram of people who say they want to “end work” and the people whose worldview aligns perfectly with socialism is essentially a circle. That’s not new.

That's somewhat disingenuous. There are socialists who wish for full automation so you can just go fishing all day, and there are those who value work itself but simply want a different relationship both at their place of work and systemically in general.