The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#211

Post by brimble » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #119

luke0016 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually support masks in schools. There's solid scientific evidence backing it as a mechanism to help limit the spread of COVID. Until all ages are able to be vaccinated, it seems like a prudent course of action. It's unfortunate that people are trying to turn such things into political statements.

> limit the spread of COVID I think it can be claimed that it limits the rate of spread, not total spread/infections.

What does "total" mean here? Is this some kind of "on a long enough timeline, everyone's dead" reasoning?

Limiting rate of spread is the same thing as reducing how many infections there are at any given time. Or, the total over a bounded time frame. I don't think "well there will still be about the same total number of infections by 2025 with or without masking" is a useful observation.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#212

Post by MattGaiser » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #208

MattGaiser wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Makes sense, because you just negotiated your salary on entry. Not really, as in this field that is about halfway through your tenure. Market has certainly shifted a lot in 9 months past.

18 month tenure seems short, even for IT employees. Better off just staffing with contractors if that's truly expected.

Devs seem to last two years, but they make the decision to leave well before that, so you need to get a retention offer in before they start the job search.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#213

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #204

mcv wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in order for us to keep our value, we'd better switch as often as possible, I guess. As long as companies aren't giving reasonable raises, at least.

Isn't that basically how tech careers work? We switch as often as vesting or the willingness of better companies to take us allows.

That is how price discovery in any market works. The more often buyers and sellers engage in transparent transactions, the more knowledge market participants have of supply and demand curve movements.

Note that for buying and selling labor, price is not only the amount of currency being exchanged, but will also include things like work schedules, work environments, break time, location, etc. I prefer to think of it as $x per a certain amount of quality of life at work.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#214

Post by alana314 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

PascLeRasc wrote: post #128

MattGaiser wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested to see the difference between those who did switch and those who didn't. It could easily be 20% raises for those moving and 1% for those who are not.

I received a 1% raise at my current job. My coworkers who worked evenings and weekends received a "100% positive adjustment of their raise" (2%).

Is keeping your salary at pace with inflation a good argument? My raises have typically been 0-3% YoY but inflation in 2021 was 6.8%.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#215

Post by c7DJTLrn » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #104

"Yet, despite all the quitting and renegotiating, the real wage for the average American worker — meaning the true value of their paycheck after taking into account inflation — fell by 2.4% in 2021." All while the world's elites have doubled or tripled their fortunes. Great Robbery would be a more apt name than Great Resignation.

Come on. Most of the people in first world countries were forced to stay at home and depend on the services that these "elites" provided. How exactly is it unfair that they make more profit from wider reach? A large portion of Americans who received COVID cheques burned it on toys and leisure instead of saving and their money went upwards. How is that unfair?

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#216

Post by Consultant32452 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #157

MattGaiser wrote: post #118

> "Yet, despite all the quitting and renegotiating, the real wage for the average American worker — meaning the true value of their paycheck after taking into account inflation — fell by 2.4% in 2021." Because most are still not moving. If a worker won't leave under these conditions, there is no reason to ever give them a raise as you don't need it to retain them.

Should it be the worker's duty to constantly be searching for better opportunities and interviewing for new jobs while working - or the employer's duty to provide reasonable CoL raises so employees aren't driven away from the company?

Everyone should be operating in their own best interest. If it's in the company's best interest to raise your pay to keep you on, they will. If it's in your best interest to leave, you should.

Some of my favorite career advice is to seek out a minimum of one interview per year. This lets you see what skills are in demand, what salaries are being offered, and practice your interviewing skills. It's a great way to educate yourself and improve long term career growth.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#217

Post by jiveturkey42 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

outime wrote: post #53

duxup wrote: post #2

"The Great Resignation" feels a bit like a phrase that folks have grasped on to and just attach the narrative they want to believe to it. Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. The idea that amid a pandemic and such that there are a variety of reasons seems backed up by the data, although I admit that's what I'm inclined to believe / seen.

>Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. Very personal opinion ahead (and not tailored to this specific topic): that's most journalism for you. They're not here to "inform the citizen" as a noble mission. Most of the things the press publishes are greatly exaggerated and dramatic to evoke different emotions to the reader which are closely tied to an agenda. The fix is IMHO easy…

Is it reasonable to assume that if a publishing or media company is owned by a parent company, and that parent company has financial stakes in other industries, the parent company might pressure or incentivize a specific headline narrative to benefit their other financial stakes?

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#218

Post by tombert » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

hideo wrote: post #124

tombert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went the opposite direction; I was at a cool hipster startup, but since I decided to re-pursue academia part time, I switched to a stable megacorp [1] so I would have a consistent bit of funding for the degree for the next 4-6 years. Roughly the same base pay, but way better stock package. I feel like for me, the boredom of COVID made online education about 10x more appealing, and with the articles about WGU poppin…

Completely off topic from the main thread but would you be comfortable sharing how you found and/or convinced an advisor to take you on for a part-time PhD?

Completely comfortable.

I spent a not-insignificant amount of time emailing professors (roughly two professors per state) across the US asking if they had part-time PhDs. Most didn't respond to me, the ones that did gave me a polite "no".

I then look up "online part time PhDs" and found basically two places that offer a doctorate online, which was Purdue and University of York (England). I inquired about Purdue, and it seemed more managerial than technical, which I wasn't interested in.

I find a program that seems interesting at University of York and ask them if they have any openings for a remote part time PhD. They responded back with basically "well not if you want funding." I then replied with "What if I fund myself?" Two professors working together decided to give me a shot, so they asked me to write a research proposal, which I did. I guess it was good enough, because when I emailed them back, instead of saying "thanks but no thanks", they gave me tips on how to refine it. After a few months of back-and-forth working on the proposal (and finishing my undergrad), we got the proposal into a state we were happy with.

After that, I just applied on their online portal and managed to get an intake interview. The intake interview was basically " is involved with this PhD. Are you OK with that?" or "What if you encounter ?" I guess I did well enough because I got an offer the next week. I start in April.

----

Sorry for the life story, but I figured you might be able to be able to save yourself a few steps.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#219

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #181

mehphp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple answer is because they can and people still accept the positions. Why would they pay you twice as much when you accepted half?

Yup. Because I didn’t have all the information such as what others were being paid. I only knew that they were offering double what my current employer was offering to keep me.

So at that moment, all parties involved made rational decisions. Now that more information has come to light, you're fighting for what you feel is equal compensation. Sounds like the "system" working.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#220

Post by michaelt » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #182

bjourne wrote: post #104

"Yet, despite all the quitting and renegotiating, the real wage for the average American worker — meaning the true value of their paycheck after taking into account inflation — fell by 2.4% in 2021." All while the world's elites have doubled or tripled their fortunes. Great Robbery would be a more apt name than Great Resignation.

>All while the world's elites have doubled or tripled their fortunes Who and how?

I think the trick is to be the CEO of Amazon when bricks-and-mortar retailers are shuttered by a pandemic. Or to be the CEO of Tesla when their share price rises 500% for some reason.

The words "all" and "doubled" are an exaggeration, though.