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Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

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Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#71

Post by Adaptive »

rkowalick wrote: post #59
SkyMarshal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces How is that different than Ubuntu (or any other distro once you've used it enough)? (serious question, considering the same switch myself)

I have been using Ubuntu now for a little over a year, and honestly, I find it incredibly tedious to do the most mundane amount of configuration. I want to adjust what programs get run at start up. On Arch Linux, I go to /etc/rc.d and remove or modify any scripts, which are clearly labelled. On Ubuntu, I think I need to weed through the dozen or so numbered /etc/rc directories and find what I need and modify. I got p…

Agreed. This is a great example of why I prefer Arch. Arch has BSD like startup and it's very simple to configure.

I realize Ubuntu is moving to upstart, maybe that will simplify things, but the current sysV run level model results in tedious complexity that I don't need. Other's might, but I don't.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#72

Post by thaumaturgy »

cageface wrote: post #67
Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

I've seen this cycle repeat endlessly in software: 1. New, popular system/language/app appears and gradually adds features and complexity in response to user requests as it catches on. Devs are personal and responsive. Users feel engaged. 2. Users grow disenchanted with the increasing complexity of the system. Developers burn out on support workload and slowly become more remote. 3. A new shiny, simple alternative ap…

Yep. The one exception that immediately comes to mind though is OpenBSD. The devs there have no trouble telling the users "No!", and, although various individuals of them burn out occasionally, as a group they are talented and dedicated enough to keep moving on.

The result is an OS that still uses a text-based installer, that is still easy to get accustomed to, and is still for the most part super reliable, even after years of development and popularity.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#73

Post by graywh »

davidhollander wrote: post #44
skeptical wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"shallow mental model (...) It really does take time if you want to understand Arch deeply" You made me curious. Those sound like they are the opposite of each other. On the article... the same old. Not for me. I like learning, but not just anything. Learning how to use the configuration of dozens of software pieces is NOT on my to do list, specially when it's pretty obvious I won't have room on my mental memory for…

The "shallow mental model" most likely refers to fewer initialization files and locations. When starting out, most everything you need is in /etc/rc.conf . Also, Arch and its package manager don't use /usr/local/, instead simply using /usr. "It really does take time" most likely refers to the fact that you are responsible for building up the OS yourself. So unlike in an OS like Ubuntu, where you do not have to know w…

No package manager should use /usr/local/.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#74

Post by Adaptive »

Legion wrote: post #35

I think I am going to have to give Arch a try. One thing that has kept me on Ubuntu family distros is font rendering. Ubuntu's patches for freetype, cairo, xft, etc are quite simply requirements for me for a desktop Linux. Some distros have these by way of some guy maintaining his own set of patched packages. I have always been reluctant to rely on these. I was thrilled when Linux Mint came out with Linux Mint Debian…

It took me a while to get font rendering working the way I wanted in Arch, but it is possible (that's by way of encouragement... don't let this be a showstopper for you; I understand why it's important).

Infinality is great but even it requires some massaging to get it to the state I like (though of course now I have my configs pretty much ready to install off a repo).

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#75

Post by Adaptive »

Rusky wrote: post #52
LeafStorm wrote: post #47

The biggest draw of Arch for me is pacman. The system itself is incredibly simple (and incredibly fast), but more importantly, it's really easy to design and compile your own packages for it. To make a Debian package, you have to edit a bunch of control files, run a bunch of shell scripts, and then it packs all that up in some obscure cpio-based format. With Arch, on the other hand, it's one program - makepkg - with…

Definitely agree. The AUR makes it really easy to manage software not in the official repositories- without that it becomes difficult to keep track of what's installed and often impossible to uninstall. However, it would be nice if pacman used signed packages, especially in light of the recent kernel.org situation.

Not done yet, but I think pacman 4.0 has signing support. I also hope the recent events will spur continued development here.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#76

Post by pmr_ »

Adaptive wrote: post #21
pimeys wrote: post #18

A couple of days ago I was given more RAM to my work computer. I had to run couchdb instances with lots of allocated RAM. The 32bit Ubuntu was not enough anymore so I needed to install a 64bit OS. Somehow I wanted to try Arch and the installation from scratch to the everyday tool took a bit over two hours. I really like this distribution. Pacman (the package manager) is super fast, the system is much easier to config…

that colorscheme looks familiar... I making my dotfiles public today and I've got a solarized themed xmonad/xmobar config up at https://github.com/altercation/es-etc . The only difference with yours will probably be the tabbed decoration theming and xmobar theming. I'd love to see your xmonad.hs too if it's online somewhere.

I have a very similar setup, although zenburn styled:

https://github.com/bo0ts/dotconfig

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#77

Post by cookiecaper »

kazikcz wrote: post #15
codabrink wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by 'minimal'? If you're talking about wine and flash, there are 32 bit builds available to be installed in 64 bit.. But that's the way it has always been.

I recall I had the same impression back at the time. Arch lacked multilib support if I'm not wrong. I recently switched from 32bit Arch to 64bit and it works great so far, multilib included.

For the record Arch is one of the only distributions with sensible multiilib support. Most of the bigger ones require purity and force you to install a chroot if you want to run 32-bit applications. Fedora is multilib by default but it sucks because it always installs 32 and 64 bit versions of everything by default instead of reasoning that you'd be OK to use 64-bit most of the time by default.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#78

Post by hello_moto »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #72
cageface wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this cycle repeat endlessly in software: 1. New, popular system/language/app appears and gradually adds features and complexity in response to user requests as it catches on. Devs are personal and responsive. Users feel engaged. 2. Users grow disenchanted with the increasing complexity of the system. Developers burn out on support workload and slowly become more remote. 3. A new shiny, simple alternative ap…

Yep. The one exception that immediately comes to mind though is OpenBSD. The devs there have no trouble telling the users "No!", and, although various individuals of them burn out occasionally, as a group they are talented and dedicated enough to keep moving on. The result is an OS that still uses a text-based installer, that is still easy to get accustomed to, and is still for the most part super reliable, even afte…

If only some part of the world of software works like this...

SQLite, OpenBSD, Python, PostgreSQL. Robust, stand through test of time, high quality.

Instead Linux, MySQL, PHP win the popularity contest.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#79

Post by zeekay »

albertzeyer wrote: post #46

I never used Arch but I have used Gentoo for really long. Everything what I read about Arch sounded a bit primitive to me. Are there any advantages of Arch over Gentoo? Or are there good comparisons?

I'm not about to remove Gentoo from my older servers, but I'm probably never going to install it again. Not having to compile everything is a huge win. The Arch build system is fantastic. It's easier to create/maintain your own packages. Arch's packages seem to be of higher quality, and more frequently updated. I've found the last few months of using Arch to be completely delightful.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#80

Post by [deleted] »

Adaptive wrote: post #74
Legion wrote: post #35

I think I am going to have to give Arch a try. One thing that has kept me on Ubuntu family distros is font rendering. Ubuntu's patches for freetype, cairo, xft, etc are quite simply requirements for me for a desktop Linux. Some distros have these by way of some guy maintaining his own set of patched packages. I have always been reluctant to rely on these. I was thrilled when Linux Mint came out with Linux Mint Debian…

It took me a while to get font rendering working the way I wanted in Arch, but it is possible (that's by way of encouragement... don't let this be a showstopper for you; I understand why it's important). Infinality is great but even it requires some massaging to get it to the state I like (though of course now I have my configs pretty much ready to install off a repo).

[deleted]
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