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Meditation and the Unconscious

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

81–90 of 122 posts

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation is a tool that cuts both ways. It must be used, like any tool, with respect and careful practice. The Buddha analogized it to a poisonous viper in the wrong hands. I'll give you one example from my own practice. When I learned the Mahasi style of vipassana (mindfulness) meditation, which has you note sense objects as they arise, I noted everything , including conversation. I noted "hearing, hearing, hearin…

Vipassana is insight meditation, which is generally contrasted with mindfulness (known as 'samatha'). "Mindfulness" is generally thought of as a prerequisite to insight, though an especially committed vipassana practitioner might well develop both concurrently. (The aforementioned 'insight' is of course meant as insight into the three core features of phenomenology, viz. the impermanence of subjective states, the all…

Hey, sounds like you're familiar with some of the teachings. But mindfulness is not associated with samatha but rather vipassana in the western world, even though the most accurate Pali word for mindful abiding is sati. Samatha is classically associated with one-pointedness that can be a helpful adjunct to a practice of insight as the revelations that accompany a sustained insight practice can often be disturbing. Meditators steady their minds with the deeply pleasant states of jhana or near-jhana (laya) as base camps for insight practice.

If we look at the suttas, the Satipatthana Sutta, or Discourse on the Establishment of Mindfulness, offers a recipe to remain mindful of the sense aggregates to achieve insight:

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or externally on the body in & of itself, or both internally & externally on the body in & of itself. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to the body, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to the body, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to the body. Or his mindfulness that 'There is a body' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself."

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#82

Makes me think of how Marvin Minsky thought Meditation was a bad thing.

I've always found it interesting that many meditation techniques involve "emptying the mind" or "clearing the mind" of thought. While practicing concentration on a single point of focus definitely seems useful for strengthening the mind, I'm not sure that practicing a state of being completely devoid of thought is necessarily healthy. I would rather meditate on being full of thought, and thinking of many things simul…

For me meditation is mostly about calming the mind (and body - sitting and focusing on your breathing will slow your heart rate), so that I can then focus on what is important throughout the day.

Imagine you wake up and spend 30 minutes on your phone before struggling out of bed, then watch TV while eating reheated leftovers for breakfast, then rush off to work because you didn't realise the time. By the time you sit down at your desk you are going to have all sorts of nonsense thoughts going around your mind and have a really hard time focussing.

Compare that to waking up, putting on calming music and making your favourite breakfast and fresh coffee, then consciously enjoying that while staring out the window at nature. After that, when you get to work you are going to much calmer.

For me, meditation allows me to be in the later state even when I don't have time or the possibility to have my day start like that. Even if you do start with the calming day, you are still going to have some nonsense thoughts, but meditation allows you to train your mind to reduce them and focus on what is important to you.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#83

We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be co…

Someone observing Earth at distance might make a similar conclusion that humanity is made of humans and the apparent intelligence of humanity as a whole is solely the result of humans bouncing into each other.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#84

We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be co…

> Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life.

In particular, reducing agitation and anxiety is great, but that meditation can make you more tranquil does not mean it can make you infinitely tranquil no matter how hard you try. Training the high jump will allow you to make higher jumps, but even a lot of high jump training will not teach you to fly.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#85

We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be co…

"If, moreover, naturalism is correct (however implausible that is), and if consciousness is then an essentially material phenomenon, then there is no reason to believe that our minds, having evolved purely through natural selection, could possibly be capable of knowing what is or is not true about reality as a whole. Our brains may necessarily have equipped us to recognize certain sorts of physical objects around us and enabled us to react to them; but, beyond that, we can assume only that nature will have selected just those behaviors in us most conducive to our survival, along with whatever structures of thought and belief might be essentially or accidentally associated with them, and there is no reason to suppose that such structures—even those that provide us with our notions of what constitutes a sound rational argument—have access to any abstract “truth” about the totality of things. This yields the delightful paradox that, if naturalism is true as a picture of reality, it is necessarily false as a philosophical precept; for no one’s belief in the truth of naturalism could correspond to reality except through a shocking coincidence (or, better, a miracle). A still more important consideration, however, is that naturalism, alone among all considered philosophical attempts to describe the shape of reality, is radically insufficient in its explanatory range. The one thing of which it can give no account, and which its most fundamental principles make it entirely impossible to explain at all, is nature’s very existence. For existence is most definitely not a natural phenomenon; it is logically prior to any physical cause whatsoever; and anyone who imagines that it is susceptible of a natural explanation simply has no grasp of what the question of existence really is. In fact, it is impossible to say how, in the terms naturalism allows, nature could exist at all.”

Excerpt From: David Bentley Hart. “The Experience of God.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#86
post #84

We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be co…

> Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. In particular, reducing agitation and anxiety is great, but that meditation can make you more tranquil does not mean it can make you infinitely tranquil no matter how hard you try. Training the high jump will allow you to make higher jumps, but even a lot of high jump training will not teach you to fly.

It can definitely shift the baseline to utter bliss for periods of months. (personal experience) and permanently according to some.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#87
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in agreement with Jung; yet not to only make darkness conscious, but by beholding it with love and presence...

Making space to love the hate, rage, shame, etc... is not easy and takes conscious effort. What about all the times when your attention is busy with something else?

That's a large part of the point. Meditation gives you the tools to increase the quantity and quality of your attention. And let's face it, attention is probably the commodity we could all do with focusing on in these hyper-distracted times...

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#88

We are made of molecules and our thoughts are simply chemical reactions. The biological basis for the mind and thoughts are not well understood today. Meditation is a time-tested way to influence our body's chemistry in ways that discourage agitation, reduce anxiety and increase clarity. Just don't take it too far and hope to discover the meaning of life. Meditating for long hours is serious business and should be co…

"If, moreover, naturalism is correct (however implausible that is), and if consciousness is then an essentially material phenomenon, then there is no reason to believe that our minds, having evolved purely through natural selection, could possibly be capable of knowing what is or is not true about reality as a whole. Our brains may necessarily have equipped us to recognize certain sorts of physical objects around us…

The only way to perceive actual reality and truth is to be magically endowed with this ability? The author of this quote can't imagine how this ability might result from evolution? Personal incredulity does not count as proof. Naturalism is our only chance for understanding this world, everything else is just magical thinking without proof.

Re: Meditation and the Unconscious

#90
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context? I have no idea what this quote is trying to say.

Here's my understanding of "shadow work", which I believe was invented by Jung. Unpleasant thoughts and emotions are made conscious. In this way, the energy behind them is released and they no longer influence you subconsciously. This ties in nicely with the Buddhist Vipassana mindfulness meditation technique, although they are separate processes. In practical terms, I notice that something is bothering me, or that t…

Beautifully put.

The meditation / Buddhist phrase often used is that of "two darts".

The first dart is the "real" affliction. So an easy example is - you wake up with a migraine.

The first dart is real. It's an actual thing.

The second dart though is your response. So in the case of a migraine you might feel all sorts of things: anger that it's happening again, irritation that it's today when you've got so much to do; worry that you've got a brain tumour; sadness that you're going to miss lunch... Insert a hundred similar responses here...

What a meditation practice can do - and what Jung was sort of talking about - is make yourself much more aware of your responses. Although the first "dart" may be "real" and (in our example) you're gunna have a headache no matter what you do, you can relieve the suffering by lessening or even removing altogether the second darts.

There's an often used quote which is attributed to Viktor Frankl (I'm not sure it was actually him...), but:

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”

This is where some (only some in my experience and opinion) of the power of meditation is realised.

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